Free and open challenge to anti-statists, open borders supporters

Non sequitur, proclaiming as such doesn't make it so. Please support your position.


Here's some more questions for you Sentient Void, Conza88, ClayTrainor, etc. You are claiming that it is impossible for a state to be voluntary, correct? You agree on Rothbard's definition of a state, in that the state will initiate force against people, correct? With that, all states would initiate force against people who oppose it, which you should there-for be against, correct? From this, to end the violence you must end the state, correct? Is your position that ALL states should be abolished?
States only exist to the extent that people allow them to exist. I would argue that individuals should be allowed to opt out of the State's rule/purview. When enough individuals remove themselves from the State's authority, the State will whither away (because it is parasitical in nature).
 
This directly implodes arguments here... BOOM.

Further, of the state, defined as "the ultimate authority to which in a given territory no recourse to a higher authority exists," Radnitzky states, "that coercion is not a characteristic that is implied in its definition. If (per impossibile) the contract theory were a tenable theory, then the institution would not be coercive and yet qualify as a state." Certainly, one is free in one's definitions, but not all definitions are fruitful.

According to Radnitzky's definition, for instance, the founder-proprietor of a settlement - a gated community - would have to be considered a state, because he decides about membership (inclusion and exclusion) and is the ultimate authority in all settler-conflicts. However, the founder of a community does not exact taxes, but he collects fees, contributions or rents from his follow-settlers. And he does not pass laws (legislates) regarding the property of other, but all settler-property is from the outset subject to his ultimate jurisdiction.

Similarly, it is conceivable that all private land owners in a given territory transfer their land to one and the same person, for instance, in order to so establish the ultimate authority which according to Hobbes is necessary for peace. Thereby, they sink from the rank of an owner to that of a renter. Radnitzky would also term such a proprietor, established in this way, a state. But why? It is contrary to common terminology and hence confusing.

And which purpose would be served, to label something entirely different with the same name: namely an institution, which derives its status as ultimate authority neither from an act of original appropriation nor from a real estate transfer on the part of original appropriators? It is this difference in the genesis of the institution, that lets us speak of (coercive) taxes and tribute and of laws and legislation instead of voluntarily paid rents and accepted community standards and house rules. Why not, in accordance with conventional speech, reserve the term state exclusively for the former (compulsory) institution?

However, regarding this (compulsory) state, then, this must be kept in mind: that its institution is even then 'unjust', if (per impossible) it rested on unanimous agreement. Consensus does not guarantee truth. A state-agreement is invalid, because it contradicts the nature of things. At any given point in time (and absent any pre-stabilized harmony), a scarce good can only have one owner. Otherwise, contrary to the very purpose of norms, conflict is generated instead of avoided.

Yet multiple ownership regarding one and the same stock of goods is precisely what state-agreement implies. The consenting parties did not transfer all of their land to the state but consider themselves as free land owners (not renters). Yet at the same time they appoint the state as ultimate decision-maker concerning all territorial conflicts and thus make him the owner of all land. The price that must be paid for this 'unjust' - contrary to the nature of things - agreement is permanent conflict.

Conflict is not unavoidable but possible. However, it is nonsensical to consider the institution of a state as a solution to the problem of possible conflict, because it is precisely the institution of a state which first makes conflict unavoidable and permanent. ~ Hoppe, Does the State Resolve or Create Conflict?

Equivocate all you want. War is Peace, Slavery is Freedom.
 
This is some third world class circus act

Umm, no Conza. An example of a third world circus act would be Anarchy.

you want to have your cake and eat it too

Swing and miss, Conza. You want to have your cake and eat it too. You try to justify Anarchy. That is a joke in and of itself. But to be more clear, you want a utopian existence while completely ignoring the fact that organized violence and rebellion would completely dismantle your society.

Your not here to help Ron Paul get elected. That has become very clear. Your here to lead the sheep to the slaughter. Arm extended, you offer forum members a shovel so that they may join your position as illustrated below:

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Reported your post because you didn't even attempt to make an argument. If I sprinkle a post with witticism's, they don't stand alone - the validity is derived from elsewhere (the arguments presented).

You lack both substance and depth. You just throw out ad hominems and try attack my character. Sad and pathetic.
 
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