FORBES poster has unique outlook: Obamacare Reduces Health Care Insurance Premiums

[GopBlackList]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...e-insurance-exchange-announces-premium-rates/

Upon reviewing the data, I was indeed shocked by the proposed premium rates—but not in the way you might expect. The jolt that I was experiencing was not the result of the predicted out-of-control premium costs but the shock of rates far lower than what I expected—even at the lowest end of the age scale.

Can we now abandon the right-wing hate of Obamacare (even though gov't mandate insurance or controlled healthcare is bad)?

DISCLAIMER: I am a anti-Republican and anti-Democratic Libertarian

 

[torchbearer]

let's see. force is being used to take money from people, and force is used to make them buy a product.
and you support violence against your neighbor, while calling yourself a libertarian.
you don't even troll good. its like troll insulting when you don't even put in the effort to appear like you care enough to give a troll effort.
its sad. i miss the good trolls. the ones that had intellect, cunning.

 

[GopBlackList]

let's see. force is being used to take money from people, and force is used to make them buy a product.
and you support violence against your neighbor, while calling yourself a libertarian.
you don't even troll good. its like troll insulting when you don't even put in the effort to appear like you care enough to give a troll effort.
its sad. i miss the good trolls. the ones that had intellect, cunning.

FYI, i am just reporting on an article and have made a comment in my post that gov't mandated insurance or controlled healthcare is bad. Learn to read.

On a sidenote, Hayek would have supported nationalized healthcare.

 

[torchbearer]

FYI, i am just reporting on an article and have made a comment in my post that gov't mandated insurance or controlled healthcare is bad. Learn to read.

On a sidenote, Hayek would have supported nationalized healthcare.

let's recap.
force is being used to take money from people, and force is used to make them buy a product.
initiation of force is immoral.
and you support violence against your neighbor, while calling yourself a libertarian.
i can't even get to your content because your label qualifier- doesn't match the content.
that is why-
you don't even troll good. its like troll insulting when you don't even put in the effort to appear like you care enough to give a troll effort.
its sad. i miss the good trolls. the ones that had intellect, cunning.

 

[angelatc]

The title doesn't jive with what you wrote. The title says they went lower, but the text seems to say they just didn't jump as high as expected.

That's pretty disingenuous, since the past two years have been filled with everybody, including but not limited to Sebilius herself, admitting that the rates were going to climb, despite their original contentions that costs would go down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...fornia-obamacare-premiums-no-rate-shock-here/

Now we have California’s rates, and they appear to be significantly less expensive than what forecasters expected.

And as long as you and your ilk are forcing me to participate in this fleecing of America, I will certainly not abandon my hatred of the system.

 

[angelatc]

Not many people around here care too much what Hayek would have though of socialized healthcare. We're more Mises / Rothbardians, and his deviations from a free market philosophy like this illustrate why that is.

 

[GopBlackList]

Not many people around here care too much what Hayek would have though of socialized healthcare. We're more Mises / Rothbardians, and his deviations from a free market philosophy like this illustrate why that is.

Do you have evidence to prove that Mise/Rothbardian economic theory works?

 

[Boss]

Do you have evidence to prove that Mise/Rothbardian economic theory works?

What type of evidence are you seeking?

Many economic theories--and virtually all of the mainstream theories, including those that contradict each other--can be proven and disproven through selective interpretation of data.

There is an erroneous view of economics as some sort of empirically-based science. Economics is a theory regarding human behavior. The amount of variables that influence human behavior are astronomical, and largely unknown. It's still largely unsettled whether or not human behavior is determined or if free will plays a role. If something as fundamental to human behavior as root cause is not generally agreed upon, how in the world could data attempting to capture the motivations and outcomes of human behavior be considered accurate?

Mises understood this aspect of economics and attempted to derive all of his economic theories from deduction. That is, Mises built his philosophy on axioms he determined to be as close to true as possible. For example, a key axiom of Mises was that a human's motivation to act is driven by discomfort. It is only from such axioms, and only using deductive logic, that Mises argued.

So your question about evidence with respect to Mises/Rothbard completely misses the point of Mises economic arguments.

 

[angelatc]

Do you have evidence to prove that Mise/Rothbardian economic theory works?

Wait - you don't want to talk about California's health care premiums rising any more?

Imagine that. (God, I hate liberals.) OK, to answer your question - I suppose the first 150 years of this nation's history isn't good enough, because it isn't pure enough or something?

 

[sailingaway]

if you happen to be in a subsidized class your particular rate might be lower but someone else is paying more for you to get your rate and prices go up. Also an 'affordable policy' used to be hospital and catastrophic covered, you pay the low end costs for deductible and check ups. The 'skinny' but legal plan now will be preventative check ups covered, but not a penny of hospital is. Those are the costs that wipe out savings and drive families to bankruptcy.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Can we now abandon the right-wing hate of Obamacare (even though gov't mandate insurance or controlled healthcare is bad)?

I have no idea what you are saying here.

 

[Henry Rogue]

Obamacare

Give it twenty years and this dystopian hell will be all to obvious.

 

[Boss]

GOPblacklist is a troll... and I have been trolled

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

I have no idea what you are saying here.

I think he's speaking about the cost-benefit analysis objection to Obamacare, which seems to be a common argument with your average conservative.

I object to the ACA because of cost issues as well, but it's down the list as to why I object to nationalizing healthcare. So I guess in a strange way, I kind of agree with GOPBlackList - arguing against Obamacare with cost-benefit analysis is boring and lame. As well as being subject to occasionally being wrong, whether it's due to random variation, manipulation, external factors, or what have you.

 

[Acala]

Give it twenty years and this dystopian hell will be all to obvious.

I doubt it will go that long. The reason health care costs grew so far out of reach was the combination of subsidy on the one hand and impaired supply on the other. Obamacare will increase the subsidy and further limit the supply. There may be a one-time slowdown in premium increases due to a slew of low-risk insured being forced into the risk pool, but I am absolutely certain that the upward spiral of health care costs and insurance rates will only escalate.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Do you have evidence to prove that Mise/Rothbardian economic theory works?

That's like asking if someone has evidence to prove that the metric system works. I'm not sure you understand the point of economic theory.

 

[Cleaner44]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickung...e-insurance-exchange-announces-premium-rates/

Upon reviewing the data, I was indeed shocked by the proposed premium rates—but not in the way you might expect. The jolt that I was experiencing was not the result of the predicted out-of-control premium costs but the shock of rates far lower than what I expected—even at the lowest end of the age scale.

Can we now abandon the right-wing hate of Obamacare (even though gov't mandate insurance or controlled healthcare is bad)?

DISCLAIMER: I am a anti-Republican and anti-Democratic Libertarian

You can abandon your right-wing hate of Obamacare if you wish. My hatred of Obamacare is not right-wing based, but rather it is rooted in a human being that wishes to be free of government force and coercion and I oppose socialism... especially imposed at an unconstitutional federal level.

 

[Henry Rogue]

I doubt it will go that long. The reason health care costs grew so far out of reach was the combination of subsidy on the one hand and impaired supply on the other. Obamacare will increase the subsidy and further limit the supply. There may be a one-time slowdown in premium increases due to a slew of low-risk insured being forced into the risk pool, but I am absolutely certain that the upward spiral of health care costs and insurance rates will only escalate.

When I typed dystopian hell, not only did i mean bankrupt and inflated prices, but also loss of medical innovation, waiting list for life saving treatment, triage by government panel. If the IRS can harass people for political reasons whats to stop government from denying medical attention to political adversaries.

 

[GopBlackList]

You can abandon your right-wing hate of Obamacare if you wish. My hatred of Obamacare is not right-wing based, but rather it is rooted in a human being that wishes to be free of government force and coercion and I oppose socialism... especially imposed at an unconstitutional federal level.

+1

 

[erowe1]

If you were taken in by this, be sure to read this follow-up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...ease-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/