Fallout from the ad continues

[PaulPatriot]

Wow. I can't believe that you are that out of touch.

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From: james1844 (Senior Member of RonPaulForums)

Thread title: I am pissed off.

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All,

I need to tell you, my fellow Ron Paul supporters, that I am seriously considering jumping ship to support another candidate over this latest campaign ad.

1) Its racist. Paul himself has said that policies like the war on drugs which target groups, rather than types of individuals are inherently improper. He said this at the morgan state debate and in his writings. Targeting birthright citizenship and student loans from "terrorist nations" means that minorities and people who are unfortunate enough to be born in the middle east will be excluded from the American dream. - In good conscience I can't support that. If you believe in human rights, you shouldn't also support de-facto race based policies like that.

2) It make Paul look like a flip flopper. Why should Paul call himself a constitutionalist when his support for the constitution is selective? Birthright citizenship is guarateed under the 14th amendment to the constitution.

3) It alienated moderates. Why should I support Paul for his anti-war and fiscal prudence stance when I can get the same stuff from liberals like Obama without the racist baggage? I'm a moderate, this alienates me. It also makes it harder for me to sell Ron to other democrats.

4) We don't need to change policies to win. Ron has already gotten a ton of support from former Tancredo people with his stance on border security. - Why bust out with this no student visas stuff now?

5) Its stupid. Terrorism is a function of being politicized and having resources. Its a phenomenon which crosses boundaries. Its not just limited to the middle east. If you know anything about terrorism, this seems painfully obvious. Up till now, the paul campaign has been smart about terrorism, but this policy won't help protect america from terrorism.

Damn it.

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www.dinksfinance.com
bloggersforpaul.blogspot.com

Look, you are going to believe what you want to. RP will do everything he can do to secure the borders. Does this ad portray him as a racist? Some people will take it that way. I don't believe he is and he is the candidate with the most integrity. Why after all these years of being in Congress since the mid 70's is he all of a sudden a racist? Get real man.

 

[rexsolomon]

You don't even know how to spell cope and you think that I should be taking you seriously?
Coup d'etat? Coup as in chicken fence? Don't tell me that was a typo.

I am a harsh coach, but if the team listens they win.
No sense seeking direction from the cheerleaders.

And I want Dr. Paul to win. I too am very, very, very pissed off.

There is nothing wrong with Dr. Paul. Its only the ad that I am attacking.
And people who have such small minds that they cannot see what is wrong with the ad.

What's wrong with it? Dr. Paul can lose because of ads like that.
Sun Tzu says: Dr. Paul cannot be attacked, but Dr. Paul himself has given his enemies a means to attack him.

 

[Cleaner44]

Neocons are pro open borders. They care nothing about illegal immigration. Ron Paul in no way resembles them with his ad.

 

[sluggo]

I can't read though all these posts, but one point to consider:

Under a Ron Paul Presidency, if his foreign policy is instituted, how many countries would be be considered hostile to the US? Not many.

An oversimplification, I know, but something to think about.

 

[AgentOrange]

I thought the ad was wonderfully done.

It's not the US's responsibility to educate those in other nations. I see no reason why student visas shouldn't be restricted until things are calmer on the world front.

 

[Bladestunner316]

People are making WAY TOO BIG of a deal about this.

Of all the things to get pissy about its this???

Some one would stop supporting Ron Paul over this issue is just plain stupid.

So someone does not get a VISA from Pakistan bug freakin deal. If we get our troops home,income tax cut, and deficit down those are more important.

 

[Compulsive1]

I also think that the campaign is responsible for the tone of the ad. Dr. Paul is different from the rest of the pack and doesn't need to pander to bigots.
It's probably the choice of footage more than anything that turns me off- too Lou Dobbs for my taste. As to the visas, it's a non issue really. Are there any student visa applications from officially classified terrorist countries? These are: Iran, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea and Sudan. The only one I can think of that sends students over is Sudan, but I might be wrong.
But yes, the tone of that part of the ad is hostile in nature and it should not be. Ron Paul is for peace liberty and freedom first and foremost.

 

[D B Branyers]

You don't even know how to spell cope and you think that I should be taking you seriously?
Coup d'etat? Coup as in chicken fence? Don't tell me that was a typo.

I am a harsh coach, but if the team listens they win.
No sense seeking direction from the cheerleaders.

And I want Dr. Paul to win. I too am very, very, very pissed off.

There is nothing wrong with Dr. Paul. Its only the ad that I am attacking.
And people who have such small minds that they cannot see what is wrong with the ad.

What's wrong with it? Dr. Paul can lose because of ads like that.
Sun Tzu says: Dr. Paul cannot be attacked, but Dr. Paul himself has given his enemies a means to attack him.

You really need to back off.

Changing or retracting the ad will give opponents much more to sink their teeth into.

This campaign should not issue apologies or try to renege on their own statements. Don't you realize how bad that looks? We have seen so many politicians pull that sort of crap that it has become cliche' and sickening. Once we start pulling that PC crap and get caught up in sensationalism, we're no better than all the other flip-flopping, wishy-washy candidates we've seen before.

As far as I'm concerned, you're either for the revolution or against it. This whole ordeal is new to a lot of us, so we're allowed a few slip-ups. Please try to understand this. You are drawing unnecessary negative attention that we can do without.

 

[devil21]

Naa, its only a few real supporters getting pissy (and from my estimation, they are ones with connections to those "terrorist nations" that would be directly harmed in some way by tightening student visas) and some provocateurs trying to stir the pot. It's a non-issue. Everybody wants strict immigration control until they are directly affected by it in some way, then it becomes a wedge issue for them.

 

[FluffyUnbound]

I think that the campaign figures that they have been so out in front with the antiwar stuff and the anti-Homeland-Security that if they air an ad like this the voters see it and say, "Wow, I guess he is really a moderate."

It's triangulation.

That being said, the ad still sucks. That triangulation crap may be necessary in Paul's Congressional district but it's not going to help one iota in the Presidential primary. It ruins the brand.

Well, at least they won't use ads like these during the independent campaign. That'll be all antiwar, antitorture all the time.

 

[PaulPatriot]

Rex,

What are you talking about? Cope or Coup d'etat? Whatever.

Coming on the forums and attacking others doesn't solve anything either. Take it up with the campaign because no one here can do anything about it. I hope all the people who feel the same way will do the same. The real racists are the neocons and as far as I'm concerned RP stands in sharp contrast to them.

 

[FluffyUnbound]

Naa, its only a few real supporters getting pissy (and from my estimation, they are ones with connections to those "terrorist nations" that would be directly harmed in some way by tightening student visas) and some provocateurs trying to stir the pot. It's a non-issue. Everybody wants strict immigration control until they are directly affected by it in some way, then it becomes a wedge issue for them.

I wouldn't say it's "just a few supporters". The immigration stuff has ALWAYS pissed off the libertarian supporters. Most of them say, "Well, I hate his immigration stance but I'm supporting him anyway." This ad just churns that stuff to the surface. And that's more than a few people.

But it'll blow over in a day or two when the campaign moves on to the next issue.

 

[hueylong]

Dr. Paul has held all these positions for years. He isn't pandering.

And he isn't changing his views (or the commercial) because people who disagree with him ask him to.

Get a grip.

Huey

 

[FluffyUnbound]

Dr. Paul has held all these positions for years. He isn't pandering.

And he isn't changing his views (or the commercial) because people who disagree with him ask him to.

Get a grip.

Huey

In 1988, he ran on a completely open borders platform.

And I find it hard to believe that he's wanted to get rid of student visas from ANY nation for "years".

 

[familydog]

Whining and moaning about a thing like is is why Libertarians don't get elected.

 

[Philadelphia76]

The ad might cost Dr. Paul some of the more liberal leaning Democratic converts and hardcore libertarians... especially in New Hampshire. However, maybe he picks up some on the fence traditional "red meat" Republicans who were to this point unconvinced that Dr. Paul fully comprehended the threat posed by Al Qaeda. At least one Republican I was speaking to over the Holidays said that he liked many of Dr. Paul's domestic views- but thought he was living in a "fantasy world" when it comes to foreign policy.

Maybe the campaign feels that Dr. Paul really needs to be aggressive on his immigration stance to convince the GOP electorate that he doesn't simply believe that bringing the troops home will make the Al Qaeda threat go away over the short term.

 

[Hangly Man]

I thought Justin was on our side.

I didn't like the ad, but I don't think it was as bad as all that.

 

[dc_]

I'm glad to see Ron Paul dumbing it down and playing hardball with the phraseology that the other politicians use. The common folk react to that kind of wording impulsively and it helps define his immigration stance.

'Bout time Paul!! Lets show them we are both TOUGH and smart.

 

[Corydoras]

In 1988, he ran on a completely open borders platform.

And I find it hard to believe that he's wanted to get rid of student visas from ANY nation for "years".

Yeah, and in 1988 he was in favor of the death penalty.

How long ago is "years" for you? This goes back at least to 2003.

 

[PgmrPaul]

Libertarians, Individualists and Morality

The attraction of Dr Paul is his moral stance of strict respect for our God-given, natural, human, inalienable individual rights. Without this moral stance he would just be an opportunist trying a different angle to get to the top of the pile.

This immigration ad calls into question his respect for these self-evident truths by the claim that people are terrorists if they live in a country declared terrorist (hence should not be allowed to attend college in America) and that rights are dependent on a person's location. By this logic it is correct to torture people in Cuba just because it is not America and to murder everyone living in a terrorist country. So much for individual rights. And if you believe that a government that will reach out across the world to murder strangers will restrain itself in dealing with subjects it has actual conflicts with, then you are just begging for fascism in your neighborhood.

Some of you will make arguments against my point, maybe all ad hominem. None of you will be able to refute the fact that the only thing Ron Paul's campaign has going for it is its moral superiority. You may claim that people like me have no where else to go, but I can certainly go back where I was before I supported Ron Paul. And we can all get back on the path we have been on these many years. Maybe the revolution was just a dream.

For now I am notifying the campaign that I am boycotting them until they publicly repudiate this idea that everyone living in certain nations is a terrorist. They haven't listened to the grassroots so far, and they probably won't now. At least I will maintain my moral integrity.