Extremely extremely dissappointed

[NeoconPaulsupporter]

Maybe other countries deny our students visas because we have sponsored terrorism? I haven't researched this. Do you have evidence that this is occurring? I was merely demonstrating that most Americans would disagree with a foreign nation's policy that would discriminate against American students. Blanket policies like this would serve to alienate America and increase the perception that we are hypocrites.

I think we could do background checks on each individual if relevant information is available. We could take into account information from our CIA and law enforcement and create a network to share criminal information with other nations. It may be difficult for some nations to provide criminal information, but maybe there could be more intensive checks for these applicants. The key is to minimize the risk of allowing a terrorist to enter using a student visa while not discriminating against an individual based on their nationality.

Have you ever watched Undercover Mosque?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

Outside of Oil, I think terrorism and extremism is Saudia Arabia's biggest export. Please watch all six parts on youtube.

 

[louisiana4liberty]

That's exactly what he's advocating!!!!

*oy*

And YES, there SHOULD be an extra layer of security. Anything else is irresponsible.

Once again, THIS IS NOT A BLANKET DENIAL BASED ON COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.

(Maybe I should just put that as my signature)

That's not what the ad says. And I haven't heard any official statement from Ron Paul that denies what his ad says.

 

[tomveil]

That's not what the ad says. And I haven't heard any official statement from Ron Paul that denies what his ad says.

Then go read the bill he introduced. Or read any of the many many many many many other threads. Freaking out over one line in one ad is a little silly with so much information available.

 

[literatim]

That's not what the ad says. And I haven't heard any official statement from Ron Paul that denies what his ad says.

student visas /= immigration.

 

[louisiana4liberty]

Then go read the bill he introduced. Or read any of the many many many many many other threads. Freaking out over one line in one ad is a little silly with so much information available.

I read the bill and that is not what the language in his ad says. You can call what I say 'freaking out', but this is the official ad of the campaign, approved by Ron Paul, and it is not consistent with his legislation. I want them to address it.

I'm just calling for the facts. I have helped fund this message. I want to know the message that I'm funding and whether I want to continue funding this.

Geez, why not get to the truth? I want transparency out of a candidate and that's why I've been behind Ron Paul. Is he going to do something different than what he says? His ad conflicts with his legislation. Tell us they screwed up the ad if it's true. Tell us that his views have changed if it's true. Just tell us the truth.

 

[carpe liberatis]

I just need some logical closure that is all.

Look I'm all aboard his economic policy (something which I feel is his strongest point). I'm all for the elimination of the IRS, the war against inflation tax, the gradual closing of the federal reserve and the FIAT currency.

A lot of his points on immigration are spot on (no amnesty, border security). However, this issue with student visas is deplorable. HQ itself was very antagonistic on the ad, fervently defending it. I'm hoping Dr. Paul reverses this position as it will inevitably alienate a lot of people who are more sensitive to issues such as this.

He's said it before; we have to start by shutting off the flood valves. Once we've done that, *THEN* we can tackle immigration reform. As it remains, the term "immigrant" applies UNIVERSALLY to any race.

Encouraging people to fix the problem now and stop the bleeding will help speed us to a time when citizenship will be more open. As it stands, no one actually knows exactly how many illegals there are in this country.

 

[schoolhouse777]

Take heart, compatriot!

Please accept these words of encouragement...tensions are extremely high at this time. There is so much at stake now and it is easy to allow sensitive, personal topics to discourage us now and again. Stay the course! Although it is easy for you to feel the sting today, know that your efforts are appreciated AS ARE YOU...

Do take some time to reflect further and if possible, come back to the cause that has united each and every one of us...liberty, freedom and prosperity.

You have obviously worked very hard to get this far. Remember, that there is one who has felt what you feel now...Dr. Paul. Why not let THAT comraderie continue to fuel the fires of liberty?

You are not alone, we are with you.

Your fellow compatriots in the r3VOLution.

 

[rexsolomon]

This is where Dr. Paul is flat out wrong. Primarily because of his distrust for the CIA, and lack of experience working inside the CIA.

It would be so easy for sleeper terrorists to be shipped to US ally countries such as Britain to study, then have them apply with a different passport in Ivy League schools here in the USA.

The ad should be edited, and the words "Terrorist Nations" must be removed.

The ad should say instead "Conduct in-depth review of student visas from openly anti-American countries". No religious references need be included. (It is still lame, as I have explained.)

The "Birthright Citizenship" portion should also be edited. Instead, it should say "Strictly enforce the 'under the jurisdiction' clause of the birthright citizenship law" as Dr. Paul consistently argued on air many times.

Sadly the Ron Paul campaign wants to sound like Tancredo. Unfortunately Dr. Paul may just end up like Tancredo with this badly-made ad. Like Tancredo, Dr. Paul may end up talking to a room with four people and chairs for 60. Stop pandering!

The root of this problem is that Dr. Paul has no experience inside the CIA. Once he becomes President, he can direct the CIA to focus on protecting the USA, rather than regime change overseas. This ad just goes to show that Dr. Paul really, BADLY needs the 'Just War' ad that I have suggested in this forum. Sadly no one listened and the damage is already done.

Last comment. Only the paranoid survive. Tell Dr. Paul not to trust the Ad companies who made that immigration video. They are circling and lobbying Dr. Paul because of the millions donated to him - but they may be playing him for a fool, and may be working for the other candidates on a personal basis. I have noted that 35% of the immigration ad message is not consistent with Dr. Paul's previous statements. Subtle changes in the message can kill Dr. Paul's campaign.

The earlier ads were far less professional and cheesy - but 100% consistent with Dr. Paul.

 

[jblosser]

Ron Paul confirms his views on immigration HAVE NOT CHANGED:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=68913

Quoting because some in here didn't read it or chose not to believe it. Ron Paul addressed this question for us today while he was at home. His answer is summarized in the above linked thread. Go read it.

 

[TheEvilDetector]

This is where Dr. Paul is flat out wrong. Primarily because of his distrust for the CIA, and lack of experience working inside the CIA.

It would be so easy for sleeper terrorists to be shipped to US ally countries such as Britain to study, then have them apply with a different passport in Ivy League schools here in the USA.

The ad should be edited, and the words "Terrorist Nations" must be removed.

The ad should say instead "Conduct in-depth review of student visas from openly anti-American countries". No religious references need be included. (It is still lame, as I have explained.)

The "Birthright Citizenship" portion should also be edited. Instead, it should say "Strictly enforce the 'under the jurisdiction' clause of the birthright citizenship law" as Dr. Paul consistently argued on air many times.

Sadly the Ron Paul campaign wants to sound like Tancredo. Unfortunately Dr. Paul may just end up like Tancredo with this badly-made ad. Like Tancredo, Dr. Paul may end up talking to a room with four people and chairs for 60. Stop pandering!

The root of this problem is that Dr. Paul has no experience inside the CIA. Once he becomes President, he can direct the CIA to focus on protecting the USA, rather than regime change overseas. This ad just goes to show that Dr. Paul really, BADLY needs the 'Just War' ad that I have suggested in this forum. Sadly no one listened and the damage is already done.

Last comment. Only the paranoid survive. Tell Dr. Paul not to trust the Ad companies who made that immigration video. They are circling and lobbying Dr. Paul because of the millions donated to him - but they may be playing him for a fool, and may be working for the other candidates on a personal basis. I have noted that 35% of the immigration ad message is not consistent with Dr. Paul's previous statements. Subtle changes in the message can kill Dr. Paul's campaign.

The earlier ads were far less professional and cheesy - but 100% consistent with Dr. Paul.

+1

 

[MicroBalrog]

I don't understand people being upset about the terrorist nations thing. Many people on this forum believe the USA sponsors acts of terrorism through the CIA, and/or that Israel does so. Why, then, is it hard to believe that some other nation's government would do so as well?

 

[TaxProtester]

The thing that jumped off the page for me is this, referring to the original post.

To deny them this right.

The first thing that came to my mind was this. What right? What right does anyone have to enter into anyone else's country? This is the fundamental question here I believe.

 

[Minuteman2008]

All of this kinda makes me sad. I realize that our nation has been through some tough times lately, and that the rule of law, of the constitution, must be restored. It is, however, one of the priceless tenets of our founders that the borders remain open to immigrants. A closed, intolerant border system will diminish the strength of our nation.

I would hope that as the nation begins to heal from the turmoil, and sound fiscal and international policy are once again apparent that this great land can once again return to the acceptance of the tired and poor huddled masses waiting for a chance at Liberty, Prosperity, and Peace.

Our nation now accepts more legal immigrants than any other, and since 1965, the number has been much higher than traditional levels, and predominatly from countries never before assimilated into western culture. This was not something the founding fathers ever intended to happen. Thanks to Senator Kennedy's 1965 immigration act, the nation is being transformed, for what purpose? Diversity? What about the melting pot, what about unity?

I commend the original poster for coming here legally but the fact remains that our population is growing much faster than at anytime in the nation's history and it is almost solely becuase of immigration, and that because of cowardly politicians who use slogans instead of telling the truth. Along comes Ron Paul and he lets slip something that doesn't conform to the usual Orwellian PC doublespeak everyone's used to, and they can't handle it. This nation is becoming what Pat Buchanan calls a multiethnic multilingual tower of Babel. I think most Americans recognize that the color of someone's skin doesn't matter, but thanks to multiculturalism replacing the melting pot, we're more divided as a nation than at anytime in history. Cultural relativism is just as much a failure in Europe as it is in the US. This has nothing to do with one's skin color and everything to do with assimilation and unity, but we're constantly being preached at how "diversity is our strength" by neocons like John McCain and all liberals. For an interesting take on all this some of the Democrats on this board should read Pat Buchanan's Death of the West. It is really a different take on the whole "diversity is our strength" slogan.

Why can't the original poster consider himself an American and want what's best for America rather than Pakistan like previous immigrants have done? It is because of the climate of PC multiculturalism that encourages immigrants to retain their own language culture and customs, and not embrace American ideals. To too many politicians nothing matters more than cheap voters or cheap labor, traditional America as a united people be damned.

 

[srmpass98]

Why can't the original poster consider himself an American and want what's best for America rather than Pakistan like previous immigrants have done? It is because of the climate of PC multiculturalism that encourages immigrants to retain their own language culture and customs, and not embrace American ideals. To too many politicians nothing matters more than cheap voters or cheap labor, traditional America as a united people be damned.

I do consider myself American. I used that original argument as a provocative post to illustrate a very important point: its the individual which defines what is and what isn't, not the nation in question. That is why putting a blanket denial (which was somewhat inferred by the ad) is a very simplistic approach to a complex phenomenon: terrorist threats. A threat from one radical individual from Europe is the same as one from a "terrorist" nation, nevermind the obvious implications of branding said nation as terrorist.

I'm pretty happy the HQ have retracted from this obvious extreme statement.

As far as labor is concerned, many immigrants occupy cheap labor, others like myself enjoy salaries in six figures. One salient point is indisputable, all immigrants have a positive impact on the economy of the nation. The real question remains, where is the limit if any? How many more can this economy sustain, especially in light of the current crisis of inflation and a declining dollar? Real questions hopefully will be realized after this election.

 

[srmpass98]

The thing that jumped off the page for me is this, referring to the original post.

To deny them this right.

The first thing that came to my mind was this. What right? What right does anyone have to enter into anyone else's country? This is the fundamental question here I believe.

Ya I meant privilege. This country stands for so much good, its easy to mix the two!

LET THIS THREAD DIE PLEASE.

 

[Cinci4RP]

Don't take it too much to heart. I am sure that there would still be student visa's, just not nearly as easy. It's a hot button issue in SC and i think the ad was made for that audience. Even Dr. Paul must pander at some point or he will never win with what he is up against.

There might be some kind of heightened check into individuals, but I am positive that we would not cut off all students. I mean what the heck is a terrorist nation? We have terrorists of American decent perpetrate acts on our own soil. Tim McVeigh? How about Ireland? Russia? Brazil? It you define "terrorist nation" as any nation that a terrorist had as a country of origin, well, the Universities would be empty.

 

[american empire]

srm

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Why does Pakistan not being on the list have anything to do with the crux of my argument?

It doesn't. Some people think that if something doesn't directly affect them, then it's not a problem. Then they ask you to feel the same way. That's one reason why politicians do so much pandering to this group and that group, and try to divide people up.

I'm not real comfortable with Paul's immigration stance in general, and I felt that way even before this ad.

There are a few other things I don't like about Paul as well. I have no reason to list them or make a big deal out of them, because he's still 100 times better than any candidate running.

 

[eaglescout]

I am a Pakistani who has recently gotten citizenship to USA. I graduated from UWashington this year and have gotten through the long, thorough legal process of immigration. I have also campaigned on behalf of a candidate whom I felt represented most in what I believed in, and Ron Paul (by virtue of extensive research) was easily the most appealing.

Until now.

Am I led to believe that by virtue of my nationality that I would effectively be declined any valid visa? Am I led to believe that the many folks I've judiciously converted to Ron Paul are effectively part of a "terrorist nation" and as a consequence have no business being here? Am I led to believe that despite the many similarities in political ideology and philosophy, that my views are inherently "dangerous" by virtue of my ethnicity and my background?

I have no problem with strict scrutiny. However, the campaign HQ have confirmed the details of the ad which in my humble opinion is outrageous. Many people seek refuge in the promise and future of the opportunity to study and live in USA (LEGALLY I MIGHT ADD). To deny them this right on the basis of their nationality is a profound oversight and hugely contradictory to his overall foreign policy.

This new development has been a complete shock for a lot of people here in Seattle. I feel very disheartened given the time, money and effort spent for the candidate I felt had the pulse of the American nation.

VERY shocked.

I'm extremely disappointed myself. You are not alone. I'd like the Ron Paul campaign, or whoever produced the ad to explain who exactly belongs to a terrorist nation. Is it Israel? People from the the U.S.?

I have friends from Pakistan who do not deserve to be labeled as coming from a terrorist nation. Ron Paul was against ugly collectivism. So what's this?

 

[LukeNM]

Don't fall into these traps just prior to the primaries. If you supported Dr. Paul in November you should continue to do so during these days of attacks.

We can work with Ron Paul to obtain what we want. We would not be able to do that with any other candidate...