Everything I hated about my own party all in one candidate called Trump.

[klamath]

So, if seeing the Republican party shenanigans in 2008 & 2012 weren't enough, doesn't the fact that Trump has the momentum among Republican voters FINALLY dissuade those who want to work "within the system?" How much more proof is needed to realize that the long-term strategy of educating young voters and concentrating on local politics is the right way to go?

Well I might have agreed except when you think about the number of people that have spent 8 years educating themselves with Ron Paul are now fawning for trump. It goes deeper than education and more to deep ingrained character traits that appear nearly impossible to change.

 

[Wilf]

The rise of Trump is absolutely fantastic for the Liberty Movement. Trump's success is really going to help us take out John McCain in Arizona, and the voters he is bringing in are going to help Liberty Candidates across the board. As a President, he won't be all that great, but stopping the TPP, ending the migration crisis, and normalizing relations with Russia alone will make him one of the best President's we've had from a Liberty perspective (a low bar I know).

I won't disagree that Trump has destroyed all of the establishment candidates. However,I do not trust that Trumo would not the things that you are asking.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

much of that also applies to Jeb and Carly. and except for Rand they are all war mongers.

....why does rand get a free pass to warmonger?...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGfzoPQACPY

(scroll to approx. 17:30 where rand foams for war against 'haters of mankind') ........

 

[RonPaulMall]

So, if seeing the Republican party shenanigans in 2008 & 2012 weren't enough, doesn't the fact that Trump has the momentum among Republican voters FINALLY dissuade those who want to work "within the system?" How much more proof is needed to realize that the long-term strategy of educating young voters and concentrating on local politics is the right way to go?

To me it is the exact opposite. Trump's success proves the elites are losing their control over the party and demonstrates that a Liberty Candidate running with the right message can absolutely win the nomination.

 

[klamath]

To me it is the exact opposite. Trump's success proves the elites are losing their control over the party and demonstrates that a Liberty Candidate running with the right message can absolutely win the nomination.

The right message to win is not the right message to liberty. Obama winning was obviously the "Right message".

 

[acptulsa]

To me it is the exact opposite. Trump's success proves the elites are losing their control over the party and demonstrates that a Liberty Candidate running with the right message can absolutely win the nomination.

Tell us again how Trump's success in subverting the anti-establishment fervor down paths that are harmless to the Establishment indicates they're losing control? Tell us again how Ron Paul got blacked out in the media, his son is either blacked out or slammed in the media, Trump is not slammed but spammed by the media, and yet 'the elites' disapprove of the one as much as the other? Are you going to argue that 'controlled opposition' is a myth and a conspiracy theory which doesn't exist in the real world?

Are you capable of explaining these things? Do you have any intention of trying? Or are you going to ignore these questions and hope in vain that they might go away?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Tell us again how Trump's success in subverting the anti-establishment fervor down paths that are harmless to the Establishment indicates they're losing control? Tell us again how Ron Paul got blacked out in the media, his son is either blacked out or slammed in the media, Trump is not slammed but spammed by the media, and yet 'the elites' disapprove of the one as much as the other? Are you going to argue that 'controlled opposition' is a myth and a conspiracy theory which doesn't exist in the real world?

Are you capable of explaining these things? Do you have any intention of trying? Or are you going to ignore these questions and hope in vain that they might go away?

Sheesh, are you so blinded with hatred that you are unable to see that he was trying to be optimistic about liberty candidates in general? It's no different than what I said years ago when people were getting all down, that I believed in my heart that someone who talked like Reagan (and would actually do what he talked about) would still win today. But, that person had to be able to appeal to people's emotions. I have been hoping Rand would be that person. Still am.

 

[RonPaulMall]

Tell us again how Trump's success in subverting the anti-establishment fervor down paths that are harmless to the Establishment indicates they're losing control? Tell us again how Ron Paul got blacked out in the media, his son is either blacked out or slammed in the media, Trump is not slammed but spammed by the media, and yet 'the elites' disapprove of the one as much as the other? Are you going to argue that 'controlled opposition' is a myth and a conspiracy theory which doesn't exist in the real world?

Are you capable of explaining these things? Do you have any intention of trying? Or are you going to ignore these questions and hope in vain that they might go away?

Ron Paul got screwed by the media because he was easy for them to marginalize. Rand is not, and has gotten plenty of media exposure. But getting exposure is not enough. You have to have the right message to take advantage of the exposure. Rand's exposure has actually hurt him so far, but only because his message has been off. There is no conspiracy at work here. Plenty of us in the Liberty Movement recognized Rand's message was off and correctly predicted what the result would be. Once you get the messge right, the support will follow.

The right message to win is not the right message to liberty. Obama winning was obviously the "Right message"

.

Wrong. A good message can be utilized by a variety of different ideologies. "The Elites betraying America and Screwing Over the Middle Class" for example, which is essentially the winning message of this cycle, could be framed to serve a 100% Liberty Ideology, a Fascist Ideology, or even a Socialist Ideology.

 

[A. Havnes]

Trump demonstrates just why I fell behind Ron so fast back in '08.

Trump
A flip flopper.
A chickenhawk
a croney capitalist
Disgusting attitudes about women
Extreme hatred of Hispanics
Part of the establishment that has led us so wrong
Racist.
Anti free trade.
country club republican
macho man that is really a coward
Slimy slick salesman
inherited wealth rich brat

Ron
Consistent, only changing if he feels his own values truly needed re-evaluating.
A peaceful man, happily married.
A true capitalist
Doesn't view people in groups, therefore he respects all as individuals.
Firm against illegal immigration without doling out hatred.
Against the establishment.
Again, he's an individualist.
Pro Free Trade!
Establishment Republicans hated him.
Humble man who is really strong.
Honest, yet not in a way meant to divide.
Uses money wisely and respects it.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

From what I read she was from middle class. being rich privilege is different from being a brat. Draft dodging and getting a second med exam to get disqualified for service says rich brat all over it aside from being a chicken hawk.

Had a chance to look it up. Carly attended school in various places, including London. Not the kind of life most middle class kids have. Her father was a Harvard educated lawyer, whose positions included U.S. Deputy Attorney General and later a member of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. Privilege and establishment written all over it.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Come over to the Dark Side.

(We have cookies.)

 

[klamath]

Ron Paul got screwed by the media because he was easy for them to marginalize. Rand is not, and has gotten plenty of media exposure. But getting exposure is not enough. You have to have the right message to take advantage of the exposure. Rand's exposure has actually hurt him so far, but only because his message has been off. There is no conspiracy at work here. Plenty of us in the Liberty Movement recognized Rand's message was off and correctly predicted what the result would be. Once you get the messge right, the support will follow.

.

Wrong. A good message can be utilized by a variety of different ideologies. "The Elites betraying America and Screwing Over the Middle Class" for example, which is essentially the winning message of this cycle, could be framed to serve a 100% Liberty Ideology, a Fascist Ideology, or even a Socialist Ideology.

Ron's message Never caught on and for every 1 person that cheered "we have been bombing them for 10 years" 9 said I will now never vote for that American hating sob.

No what is winning is to "form a police state to kick foreigners out". There is NOTHING encouraging about this election so far. It is worse than it ever was.

 

[nayjevin]

Ron's message Never caught on and for every 1 person that cheered "we have been bombing them for 10 years" 9 said I will now never vote for that American hating sob.

No what is winning is to "form a police state to kick foreigners out". There is NOTHING encouraging about this election so far. It is worse than it ever was.

Where are you getting your daily information? I don't see it that way.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Anti-free market. That's a huge non starter.

Yup, that's my main objection.

He thinks the government can produce medical goods and services more efficiently than the market (i.e. socialized medicine); and the government can allocate property rights in land more efficiently than the market (i.e. eminent domain from one to another private owner); and the solution to a recession is to increase government spending (i.e. Obama stimulus); and unprofitable private enterprises should not be allowed to fail, but rather should be subsidized at taxpayer expense (i.e. bank and auto bailouts). His protectionism (on both trade and immigration) is just shitty anti-capitalist icing on a shitty anti-capitalist cake.

*course, all this assumes that he actually holds the views he expresses: as oppose to just fucking about for his own amusement (or being somebody's ringer)

Do you believe that our current trading agreements are free trade?

Trump's only concrete proposal is to increase tariffs.

However far the status quo may be from free trade, raising tariffs is most certainly a movement even further away from free trade.

 

[klamath]

Where are you getting your daily information? I don't see it that way.

It is called election returns 9 out 10 republicans did not vote for RP.
other; Rand at 2-4% Trump at 30%

 

[LibertyEagle]

However far the status quo may be from free trade, raising tariffs is most certainly a movement even further away from free trade.

It's not free trade if only one side is doing it.

 

[LibertyEagle]

It is called election returns 9 out 10 republicans did not vote for RP.
other; Rand at 2-4% Trump at 30%

Last time around, they voted for the establishment. This time around, they don't want the establishment.

They think Rand is establishment. That's largely why his numbers are where they are. That, plus he is not addressing the issues that the VOTERS care most about and if he mentions them, he is so nuanced, that it's difficult to distinguish him from all the others.

Anyway, that's what I think is going on.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Trump is a big mouth, throwing out populist hyperbole and untrue generalizations without any appropriate qualifiers. But I don't think that Trump is a racist. Frankly, considering how the left uses that smear to shut people down, I'm a little surprised to see it thrown out so liberally, especially considering how it has been used in the past against certain popular candidates...

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Trump's only concrete proposal is to increase tariffs.

However far the status quo may be from free trade, raising tariffs is most certainly a movement even further away from free trade.

It's not free trade if only one side is doing it.

Any increase in tariffs, by either or both trading partners, is a movement further away from free trade which harms the populations of both countries.

 

[Anti Federalist]

From earlier this year:

NEW YORK, N.Y. – In just four years, the percentage of Americans who believe there are any books that should be banned has increased by more than half: 28% believe this to be the case today, vs. 18% in 2011. One-fourth (24%) are unsure, which leaves nearly half of Americans convinced that no books should be banned completely (48%).

Politically speaking, Republicans are nearly twice as likely as Democrats or Independents to believe there are any books that should be banned completely (42% vs. 23% & 22%, respectively).

http://www.theharrispoll.com/health-and-life/Censorship_2015.html

Crafting the message or messenger has nothing to do with it.

Ron was about as Simon-Pure a messenger as you could get and he was roundly rejected.

Klamath is right, people don't want freedom.

The authoritarian Right wants a police state "Fortress America".

The authoritarian Left wants a doctrinaire "politically correct" state.