Evangelize me!

[Sola_Fide]

The difference is obviously that I am real, and that my existence proves itself to me, whereas God is a word for an idea about a thing that doesn't exist in space here with me.

We're not talking about what you think is real. We're talking about the failed double standard of your argument. Your argument is not valid.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Ok let's say that everyone on here had unlimited resources, and could drop whatever they were doing and come to you, to verify their existence.

In some hours of time, I would knock at your door, present myself as a real thing in 3 dimensions, and introduce myself.

Then, we can sit and wait for God to do that. No knock would come at the door. At which point I would ask you to explain how me and "him" are real in the same sense, when only I am sitting here at your table.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

How do you know what "space" is? Did you experience it? How do you know what "space" is if you haven't experienced all of it? What if "space" is different somewhere else than where you've experienced it?

What are you talking about? See how you are sitting in a chair in a room or something? And how there is a measurable distance between you and other things, like that wall across from you? Or when you go outside, and there is a vague line across the landscape, across which are stretched miniature versions of buildings and natural formations that, when you move closer in space are quite large?

LOL what are you talking about?

I would love to hear about the people that convinced you that your eyes don't see anything real. Somehow though their fantasies ARE.

 

[Sola_Fide]

What are you talking about? See how you are sitting in a chair in a room or something? And how there is a measurable distance between you and other things, like that wall across from you? Or when you go outside, and there is a vague line across the landscape, across which are stretched miniature versions of buildings and natural formations that, when you move closer in space are quite large?

LOL what are you talking about?

I would love to hear about the people that convinced you that your eyes don't see anything real. Somehow though their fantasies ARE.

So you are so unaware of these philosophical concepts that you are making a joke out of something you have no answer for (by the way, concepts are not material and do not exist in space, so how can they exist according to you?)

Answer the question: If you think you know things by experience, then how can you say that you know what "space" is if you haven't experienced all of it? How do you know if you've experienced ANY of it?

Simple question about your epistemology. What is your answer?

 

[erowe1]

DO IT!

Fair warning: I have no fear of hell, no issues with being a pervert and a hedonist, no problems with my identity, and no gnawing, secret, shameful childhood trauma.

"Evangel" means good news.

It looks to me like you don't need any of that now.

But if at any time the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin, and you fear the wrath of a holy God, know that there is good news.

 

[Deborah K]

And Robert, suppose I don't care about something written just because it is written in the Bible? Who says that the Bible matters? The Bible does...but I don't find that very convincing since I am trying to be convinced why I should listen to it.

This, from someone who has never read it.

 

[fisharmor]

If your horse ain't thirsty why would you want someone to show him water? Or imply some sort of challenge to get the non-thirsty equine to drink?

Need some attention? Is that your only issue?

Let me know if you're ever genuinely thirsty.

I'm thinking he probably wants to be entertained.

BCS, know that there are tens of thousands of nominal "Christians" who want to be entertained.
There is quite a market for it. Drive on any interstate in red-state America and you'll see hundreds or thousands of "churches" catering to it, usually parked right on the highway for visibility. You can tell them because they all look like box stores, may not have any Christian symbols on them, and usually have some sort of slogan on a billboard which could apply to virtually any feel-good social club.

I understand many of them put on quite a show. You can even get a mocha latte and a stadium-style seat.

You also won't find a single one of them defending anything.

You'll find plenty of apologists here, but as you can see, few of them are going to join in your circle jerk.
We don't do this thing to feel good - in fact, this makes a lot of us feel like shit on a fairly regular basis.
So we're decidedly not going to do it for your lulz.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

So you are so unaware of these philosophical concepts that you are making a joke out of something you have no answer for (by the way, concepts are not material and do not exist in space, so how can they exist according to you?)

Yeah they don't exist- that is what I am saying...Things exist.

Answer the question: If you think you know things by experience, then how can you say that you know what "space" is if you haven't experienced all of it? How do you know if you've experienced ANY of it?

because I am, and yet, other things that are exist beyond the reach of my arms. What about what I am saying is making you ask about my claim to have experienced ALL OF space?

Who do you know that has experienced all of space? I am assuming you mean to take this into a, "Well no one has been to the edge of galaxy and THATS where god is!"?


Sola-Fide, I don't understand how you can claim that a person and god are real in the same way.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Then how come it doesn't make me cry? Russian literature actually makes me weep as I read it. Bible never did that. I think that Tolstoy has a better understanding of human nature than its authors.

How do you expect to be moved by what the Bible says if the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted you of your sin and opened up your mind to the truth of God's Word?

Your description of your indifference to the Bible is an indication of God's judgement on you right now. That you would speak so carelessly about it or even brag about it should be very troubling to you indeed....

 

[Sola_Fide]

So you are so unaware of these philosophical concepts that you are making a joke out of something you have no answer for (by the way, concepts are not material and do not exist in space, so how can they exist according to you?)

Yeah they don't exist- that is what I am saying...Things exist.

There you go folks. The person who is positing the concept of materialism says that concepts don't exist.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

uhhh...

huh?

 

[Lucille]

"Talking to [Ayn Rand], I realized how impossible it has become to communicate with her at all. … It's the darnedest thing, but professed atheists (one of whom she is which) are really more bigoted than any adherents of any religion, except perhaps Whirling Dervishes."
--Isabel Paterson

 

[Sola_Fide]

uhhh...

huh?

You just made a self-refuting statement. You posited the concept that concepts don't exist. It's completely irrational. You haven't thought through your worldview enough to even realize these things yet.

 

[robert9712000]

What i find as a dishonest acceptance of written history is that most atheist will choose one documented account, yet disregard another solely based on the societal accepted version.A example of that is the earliest known references to Alexander the Great were written 250 years after his death, while Even if you don't want to accept non Biblical references,there where other non-Biblical references written within 100 years after Christs death.Yet noone questions whether Alexander the Great really existed or was just a mythical character but they question whether Christ did.

If your too lazy to look it up heres the references that talked about Alexander the great and non-biblical references for Christ

Alexander the Great was born and died 356BC- 323 BC

5 main references to him - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great_in_historiography

Plutarch - Life of Alexander (46 – 120 AD)
Arrian - Anabasis Alexandri (2nd century AD)
Diodorus - Bibliotheca historica (1st century BC)
Curtius - Historiae Alexandri Magni (1st century AD)
Justin - The Epitome of the Philippic History of Pompeius Trogus (2nd century AD)


Jesus Christ was alive from 7–2 BC to 30–33 AD

non biblical references - http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/

Josephus (37-101AD)
Thallus (52AD)
Pliny the Younger (61-113AD)
Suetonius (69-140AD)
Tacitus (56-120AD)
Lucian of Samosata: (115-200 A.D.)

 

[Sola_Fide]

What i find as a dishonest acceptance of written history is that most atheist will choose one documented account, yet disregard another solely based on the societal accepted version...

That is because of their presuppositions. This is why evidentialist apologetics are worthless. You have to get down to the governing presuppositions, the axioms of thought, in order to have an effective apologetic for Christianity.

Arguing what happened in history is not going to show an atheist that he is wrong (because his presuppositions already determine what he is going to take as historical). You have to crush them at the level of their presuppositions. Show them that they are contradictory blind faith religionists who know nothing and can prove nothing.

 

[1stAmendguy]

There you go folks. The person who is positing the concept of materialism says that concepts don't exist.

What is existence? What does it mean to exist?

 

[BetterCallSaul]

You just made a self-refuting statement. You posited the concept that concepts don't exist.

No- I made a positive statement- only things that exist exist, which is to say, if something doesn't affect things in space, then it is not a thing. I don't understand how you are not getting it.

 

[mosquitobite]

People can tell you THEIR experience and their learning, but only you can open the door for the Spirit.

You must at least somewhat WANT to be evangelized in order for something to resonate with you.

Does the idea of finding faith scare you?

 

[BetterCallSaul]

What i find as a dishonest acceptance of written history is that most atheist will choose one documented account, yet disregard another solely based on the societal accepted version.A example of that is the earliest known references to Alexander the Great were written 250 years after his death, while Even if you don't want to accept non Biblical references,there where other non-Biblical references written within 100 years after Christs death.Yet noone questions whether Alexander the Great really existed or was just a mythical character but they question whether Christ did.

absolutely irrelevant though. No one talking to me about Alexander the (Buster Bluth) "Great" is concluding, "and therefore he is the one true God and if you do not behave as his self-appointed agents today decree, then you are a threatening heretical outsider loser hell-bound dirty sinner." They are just trying to attribute things like place-names to his existence.

 

[Sola_Fide]

No- I made a positive statement- only things that exist exist, which is to say, if something doesn't affect things in space, then it is not a thing. I don't understand how you are not getting it.

1. "Only things that exist exist" is a circular argument. You are the one who is not getting it. You are begging the question.

2. "Only things that exist exist" is a concept. If your position is that immaterial things do not exist, then it is self-refuting to posit the immaterial concept of materialism.