Don...Questions about C4L Please.

[ARealConservative]

Another important general rule of public relations is always get your story out first so the other party has to respond to your narrative instead of being put on the defensive and ceding ground from the start.

A final good general rule is never attack down. Always save your powder for the guy ahead of you. Just ask Rudy Guiliani about that.

This is a rare moment of honesty from you.

So the point in running over here and throwing an active third party campaign under the bus is because you wanted to get your version out first.

The big problem is you have no campaign in 2008 to defend. So apparently the C4L is in the Ron Paul business, just as they charged. Your priority is not to get votes for liberty candidates, it is to defend the actions of the C4L and Ron Paul.

 

[acptulsa]

This is a rare moment of honesty from you.

So the point in running over here and throwing an active third party campaign under the bus is because you wanted to get your version out first.

The big problem is you have no campaign in 2008 to defend. So apparently the C4L is in the Ron Paul business, just as they charged. Your priority is not to get votes for liberty candidates, it is to defend the actions of the C4L and Ron Paul.

Did they throw the Barr campaign under the bus or did it jump off the curb of its own volition?

What makes you think the LP wouldn't have gotten the greatest gain from the press conference as it was if only they hadn't gotten in a snit and did their level damndest to short-circuit it?

Doesn't wash, ARC. There's no proof of your allegations, and they make no logical sense either. Barr un-invited himself. No one else kept him away.

 

[mnewcomb]

Please use all of your 20 years political experience to impress upon the C4L to open up their financials. This crowd is not one you want to get on the bad side of...

 

[ARealConservative]

Did they throw the Barr campaign under the bus or did it jump off the curb of its own volition?

What makes you think the LP wouldn't have gotten the greatest gain from the press conference as it was if only they hadn't gotten in a snit and did their level damndest to short-circuit it?

Doesn't wash, ARC. There's no proof of your allegations, and they make no logical sense either.

Don just proved the allegations. Look what he said – the point was to get C4L’s version out first. Attack up, not down. They went on the attack to defend a non campaign. They actions contradict their stated goals of helping the third party candidates.

Bob Barr hurts the neocons by copying a small portion of their platform – like personal responsibility and limited government. Appearing with Nader and the Green Party candidate totally undermines this message…..or atleast he felt so and since it is his campaign to run, he did what he thought was right. But again, Ron Paul refused to run third party, so he doesn’t get to lead the campaign. Apparently this angered the egos of those in the C4L.

Ron Paul backed out on a Beck interview – I don’t recall everyone defending Beck for this slight when he was angered and struck back. I’m utterly amazed at the hypocrisy in this movement. Cult of personality is sounding more and more accurate with each new thread.

 

[torchbearer]

Attack up means, Barr isn't worth attacking.
I think you missed the meaning of the words expressed.

 

[acptulsa]

Don just proved the allegations. Look what he said – the point was to get C4L’s version out first. Attack up, not down. They went on the attack to defend a non campaign. They actions contradict their stated goals of helping the third party candidates.

Bob Barr hurts the neocons by copying a small portion of their platform – like personal responsibility and limited government. Appearing with Nader and the Green Party candidate totally undermines this message…..or atleast he felt so and since it is his campaign to run, he did what he thought was right. But again, Ron Paul refused to run third party, so he doesn’t get to lead the campaign. Apparently this angered the egos of those in the C4L.

Ron Paul backed out on a Beck interview – I don’t recall everyone defending Beck for this slight when he was angered and struck back. I’m utterly amazed at the hypocrisy in this movement. Cult of personality is sounding more and more accurate with each new thread.

Uh huh. Yeah, I worship Ron Paul and want to have his baby, riiiiiiight...

I still see nothing wrong with Ron Paul's idea concerning the press conference. I still don't see why Barr couldn't have provided an accurate RSVP. I still don't see why, assuming the rumor is even true, the alleged whisper campaign about Barr dropping out would have resulted in anything but more attention for Barr. I don't see how Paul was trying to run Barr's campaign any more than he was trying to run Nader's, McKinney's or Baldwin's. And I don't see why Barr's campaign should be considered so worthy that the C4L should scuttle its own existence to cover for a Barr hissy fit.

Or, to put it shortly and bluntly, fail.

 

[ARealConservative]

Uh huh. Yeah, I worship Ron Paul and want to have his baby, riiiiiiight...

I still see nothing wrong with Ron Paul's idea concerning the press conference. I still don't see why Barr couldn't have provided an accurate RSVP. I still don't see why, assuming the rumor is even true, the alleged whisper campaign about Barr dropping out would have resulted in anything but more attention for Barr. I don't see how Paul was trying to run Barr's campaign any more than he was trying to run Nader's, McKinney's or Baldwin's. And I don't see why Barr's campaign should be considered so worthy that the C4L should scuttle its own existence to cover for a Barr hissy fit.

Or, to put it shortly and bluntly, fail.

Act mature, I didn't accuse you of having a crush

There was nothing wrong with Ron Paul’s idea. I also see nothing wrong with Bob Barr having a change of heart after being provided the text of the speech.

The problem I have is how both campaigns have acted. Based on the pure timing of information released, The C4L was first to public with the feud and also actively disrupted the Barr press conference. They lobbied supporters to choose the C4L over the Barr campaign, even though the C4L has no active role in the 2008 elections. For this, I give them the lions share of the blame for the PR hit.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Attack up means, Barr isn't worth attacking.
I think you missed the meaning of the words expressed.

Wait, so Barr isn't worth attacking but his staffers are? (reason why Don would initiate a few different threads attacking them)

 

[ARealConservative]

Attack up means, Barr isn't worth attacking.
I think you missed the meaning of the words expressed.

quote is your friend

 

[torchbearer]

Wait, so Barr isn't worth attacking but his staffers are? (reason why Don would initiate a few different threads attacking them)

If someone told me to fuck off, or told one of my associates to fuck up, i'd have a problem with them too.
Adrien wasn't suprised by Corey's behavior(he deals with him often), he's digging into it more... but acting like Barr didn't make a retarded political move is absurd.

 

[torchbearer]

quote is your friend

I'm not really advocating a position in the sense that i really give a fuck... i don't care what your reality is.
But it does look silly how people are trying to spin this...

 

[torchbearer]

Should I go into the details of how Bob Barr screwed up getting on the ballot in Louisiana?
The easiest state in the union to get on the ballot?

I've seen bradley trash Ron's people in his PCC... but I haven't seen him trash Barr over his campaign's incompetance.
I can't make excuses for the guy anymore. I've got first hand info on the louisiana situation.
Badnarik had more organization than Barr.

 

[acptulsa]

Act mature, I didn't accuse you of having a crush

Obviously I have a fuzzy idea of the meaning of the word 'cult'.

The problem I have is how both campaigns have acted. Based on the pure timing of information released, The C4L was first to public with the feud and also actively disrupted the Barr press conference. They lobbied supporters to choose the C4L over the Barr campaign, even though the C4L has no active role in the 2008 elections. For this, I give them the lions share of the blame for the PR hit.

Don wanted to give his side, and felt it wiser to do it sooner rather than later. I don't blame him for that. I wasn't aware that Adam Kokesh is the official spokesman for the C4L, and I don't know who else spoke out at Barr's shindig. Aside from that, I don't see what is so great, liberty-minded and/or trustworthy about the Barr campaign that the C4L should risk going under the bus in order to save the Barr campaign from itself. If Barr had some rebuttal to part of Paul's speech, why on earth didn't he say so right in front of the exact same cameras? He did have that opportunity.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Don thank you so much for responding!

I believe the LP has their nose bent out of shape since many left the LP to support Ron Paul, Ron Paul turned down their invitation to run on their ticket when he lost the primaries, Ron Paul's supporters didn't flock to the LP, Ron Paul endorsed 4 candidates rather than Bob Barr, Ron Paul turned down their invitation to run as Bob Barr's VP. The LP is split..can't seem to get it together. I'm not sure I trust Verney. They can't fundraise. They can't get on ballots. I think Badnarik left the LP and is now an independent. I had to leave the LP and end my support for Barr due to this fiasco.

That being said, I'm not so sure Ron Paul is driving the bus at C4L, I'm not crazy about C4L not being a real grassroots activist group...I'd like to see a more parlimentarian process...not a SET board of directors, to include grassroots...there should be a nominating committee and elections of officers, otherwise I just don't really consider it a grassroots program. I would like to have seen it a volunteer organization from the top down. I would at least like to see a list of who the officers are and the by laws...I dont' really care about salaries that much. I would just like more grassroots involvement from the top down..so the same people aren't in control. I guess I feel like C4L was cooked up by a group of like minded insiders...and to be honest, I don't really feel like the grass roots are a part of it...no decision making from the bottom, and C4l will make money by selling their program and materials so the directors can make their dough. I'm not saying it isn't legit...I'm just saying I don't really believe it to be a grass roots activist organization. I would suspect that Mr. Tate and his board are the decision makers and this was all worked out behind the scenes during the campaign. I'm not a troll, or a dissenter...I mean, I'm not trying to discourage ANYONE from participating...not at all. I just don't know if I'm into it. Tones

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

But I really LOVE Ron Paul. I'd also like to thank Matt for some honest answers and for not calling me a reptilian. Tones

 

[Mahkato]

That being said, I'm not so sure Ron Paul is driving the bus at C4L, I'm not crazy about C4L not being a real grassroots activist group...I'd like to see a more parlimentarian process...not a SET board of directors, to include grassroots...there should be a nominating committee and elections of officers, otherwise I just don't really consider it a grassroots program.

I think this will happen once we have a solid foundation built with the Precinct Leader program. PLs will elect BPOU chairs, which will elect District chairs, which will elect State chairs, which will elect the board. Or something like that. To get started, though, we just have to deal with some appointed officers.

 

[constituent]

I'd also like to thank Matt for some honest answers.

+1 promotion time comes around.... well, that guy's earned it.

 

[constituent]

I think this will happen once we have a solid foundation built with the Precinct Leader program. PLs will elect BPOU chairs, which will elect District chairs, which will elect State chairs, which will elect the board. Or something like that.

myself and many others find this whole prospect rather unappealing.

more bureaucratic non-sense, imo.

more like a club (and no, not the beatin' kind either) than a direct-action force to be reckoned with.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Oh hey thanks..that's good to know...that sounds a little better. Tones

 

[acptulsa]

more like a club (and no, not the beatin' kind either) than a direct-action force to be reckoned with.

Yes, but how else is accountability to be maintained? Dr. Paul won't live forever, and we didn't create this so the next neocon-like group could take it over and use it against the cause of liberty in a decade's time.