Does anyone else just feel generally uneasy right now?

[jonhowe]

Cognitive Dissonance really is part of it. We're supposed to be celebrating as Americans, but we know this will result in more support for war and the truly irredeemable Obama. There was even a small hope I had that a slightly less sucky republcan in his place, and even that hope has dwindled. It's like something we're supposed to be really happy about has happened, but we know it won't result in anything good.

Like Matt Collins said, there really is something nauseating about all the nationalism. I love my country as an extension of loving my neighbor, but can't stand these Ra Ra, go team go speeches. Or support our troops, keep them at war, bizarre rhetoric. It just make me more isolated and distrustful of the public and democracy.

This i can agree with. I even broke out one of the beers I've been aging for the occasion (a 3 year old bottle of Victory Old Horizontal Barley Wine). As Obama began speaking, though, I couldn't help but think that this would just encourage more illegal wars, cause more blowback, and more 9-11's.
The beer was great, though.

 

[tpreitzel]

Or support our troops, keep them at war, bizarre rhetoric. It just make me more isolated and distrustful of the public and democracy.

You should always be wary of the madness of the masses, i.e. a democracy. At this point, it's probably instructive to compare the responses to Osama's alleged killing to video of rallies held by Hitler. Divisive? possibly, but truth is paramount. Informative? likely... Just a few hours ago, I was talking to an elderly gentlemen and his wife. The wife of the gentlemen even acknowledged the creepy similarities between the two events and she was alive during WW2. In fact, she used the precise word, "creepy", to describe the similarities.

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Well, I'm not sure if it was you specifically, but people of your viewpoint REPEATEDLY call those of us who think that 9-11 was Osama's doing "sheep" and other such terms.

I too am an atheist and agree with your thoughts, but also keep such statements to myself because it wouldn't help Ron if I promoted him alongside my "radical" ideology. Promoting "9-11 truth", as you call it, alongside Ron is EXACTLY what you just claimed you don't want to be doing. You're associating him with a radical ideology which he does NOT agree with, and turning people off because of it.

Please, feel free to think what you will of 9-11, but bringing it up in almost every discussion of Ron Paul and current events is going to do the same harm you claim you are trying to avoid.

People who bring up 9/11 Truth when talking with mundanes about Ron Paul are fucking stupid. Ron Paul has supplied us with more ammunition than we need in order to change the hearts and minds of the country. I bring it up on this forum because most of us here can handle it.

If you don't subscribe to 9/11 Truth, fine. If a "Truther" calls you a sheep, respond to him the same way I just responded to you, or debate him on the issue. But don't become discriminatory to all Truthers because of one or a few instances. That is collectivism, which is something that is not compatible with Liberty. I am an individual and you should deal with me a such.

Have I ever called you a "Sheep" because you didn't believe the EXACT SAME THING I DO? . . .of course not.

I called you a "dolt" for being a collectivist and passing judgement on my character without ever engaging me in a debate on the topic in which we disagree.


fuckin' sheesh!

*I'm an atheist/anarchist/9-11 Truther/Libertyphile. My best friend who's practically a brother to me is a Southern Baptist/Drink the Kool-Aid/Would probably vote for Bush 2 if he was running again mundane. I love the bastard. He and I can talk politics all day long because we treat each other with fucking respect. And guess what!! I've got him reading "Liberty Defined"! We had a conversation today about Bin Laden and he said, "This is so stupid. They dumped him in the ocean?! What a crock!" He's not even buying this crap anymore.


*If I seem overly agitated I apologize. I'm worn out from a long day. Please take it in stride.

 

[mport1]

I wonder how many '9/11 conspiracy' bashers have watched Loose Change: Final Cut in it's entirety...

I have watched many of those videos as well as done a good deal of research on the subject. I concluded that the theories are ridiculous and easily refuted. Even if they were true, it doesn't matter one bit to me.

The whole thing is a MASSIVE waste of time. I already know the government is evil and I want to get rid of them. Whether or not they had some part in 9/11 is completely meaningless. We know without a doubt about the millions of people they have murdered and the horrendous actions they have taken part in for decades. Whether or not they did 9/11 does not change my opinion on them and is only a distraction from the real message which is liberty.

If it was somehow conclusively proved that there was no inside job, would many truthers now think the government is not evil?

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

If it was somehow conclusively proved that there was no inside job, would many truthers now think the government is not evil?

This is a very good point!! We don't need to wake everyone up to the complete and total truth in order to be victorious here. To quote Jagger....

"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you might just get what you need."

 

[jonhowe]

Nate, am I misinterpreting the term "the mundanes" to mean the same thing as "sheep" in this instance? Please, correct me if I am...

Again, my point is simply that this is a Ron Paul forum. People find this 1st when they google "Ron Paul forum". We represent his supporters.
That's why you and I both try to tone down our atheist rhetoric; it won't help the cause.
That's why I think "truthers" (I put it in quotes only because I don't know the term you prefer) should do the same.

Most people I know who are undecided on Ron would be absolutely disgusted and turned off of Ron if they saw all the truther talk here. But this is what they'd find if they googled a place to discuss it.

And Nate, it's all good. I was just checking my old messages on here and found a warning I got for calling someone an "itch with a b", but not exactly... It's easy to get heated about the things we're passionate about.

 

[Anti Federalist]

EDIT: The term you specifically chose was "mundanes".

Whoa whoa whoa...

I brought that term here and use it all the time, although I cannot take credit for coining it. (that goes to Will Grigg at ProLibertate)

It has nothing to do with what you believe about 9/11.

It reflects what we all are, in the eyes of the state, Mundanes, not worthy of the perks and pleasures that our glorious leaders and our protectors are due.

 

[Kylie]

What's wierd is that it's not just us who are thinking this way. Just look at your facebook page. Mine have more people I know questioning the whole situation as bullshit than not.

Maybe what I've been saying is getting through, but I think it's more that the underlying flee mechanism is kicking in on those who are a little more enlightened than others. ,ot to say that they really understand why their feeling this way, but still do. I've had a small scream in the back of my head for over a year now, telling me to get out of here, but can't do it responsibly yet.

 

[mport1]

They have everything to do with Liberty!! How can you have Liberty if you don't have the Truth!? YOU CAN'T!!!

We "flock" to Ron Paul because the mundanes will believe him when he talks about Liberty. He is an honest man that has lived a principled life. We don't have to agree on everything when we agree on most things.

To segregate a portion of Ron Paul supporters and say that they don't make sense, and to call them out by postulating that "conspiracy theories" have nothing to do with Liberty is not only ignorant it's FOOLISH!

They are Ron Paul supporters and Liberty supporters!!! Shut the fuck up!

I'm a goddamn atheist. I believe all religion is fucking tyranny. Do you see me calling out all Christians because I think religion has nothing to do with Liberty!?! FUCK NO!

WAKE UP and STOP BEING DOLTS! We're on the same fucking side.


*You aren't better because you think differently about some things.

I have nothing against conspiracy theorists, and if I somehow came across that way I apologize. However, I get very annoyed when people who support Ron Paul somehow get swayed into these conspiracy theories that are a complete distraction. We need to focus on spreading the messages of liberty, not convincing others of 9/11 or conspiracies which often alienates them and makes people believe that libertarian ideas somehow have to do with that kind of stuff. We are on the same side for sure when it comes to spreading libertarianism.

They don't have anything to do with liberty. Whether or not certain people took part in 9/11 does not change the fact that government is a criminal organization that violates the non-aggression principle. We need to understand the root of the problem of why government is evil, not convince others off these individual conspiracies that are almost impossible to definitely prove one way or the other. That does not strike the root of the problem.

I never said or think that I am better than anybody.

 

[KramerDSP]

I agree. The "Loose Change" films have a lot of holes in them, but the 9/11 truthers can believe whatever they want, IMO.

I'm not a 9/11 truther (although I do have some doubts about the official story of Flight 93), but the fact is that 66% of the country (as recently as 2004) were JFK Truthers. It's interesting how JFK Truthers are accepted while 9/11 Truthers are not. I think the birth certificate issue is a huge distraction and ridiculous, but to each their own. We all contribute in different ways. We all have different opinions on what works best. People get mad at me because I'm too focused on recruiting the anti-war left and the Independents. But that's my skill set because I was one of them. The Goldwater conservatives and more-of-a-Rand-guy supporters are better at explaining Ron to the right.

At the same time, I agree that the 9/11 talk could happen elsewhere, but I will not tell people what to do because I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. Not even Ron. I think the events of the last few days have brought us all back to the days of 9/11 and we all feel like we can say whatever we want on this forums, so I believe that is why we are seeing a lot of this talk resurface. I'm OK with it, but I would hope people realize that talking about 9/11 truth is not necessarily the ideal way to attract new people to the RP campaign, except to other 9/11 truther friends of theirs.

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Nate, am I misinterpreting the term "the mundanes" to mean the same thing as "sheep" in this instance? Please, correct me if I am...

Again, my point is simply that this is a Ron Paul forum. People find this 1st when they google "Ron Paul forum". We represent his supporters.
That's why you and I both try to tone down our atheist rhetoric; it won't help the cause.
That's why I think "truthers" (I put it in quotes only because I don't know the term you prefer) should do the same.

Most people I know who are undecided on Ron would be absolutely disgusted and turned off of Ron if they saw all the truther talk here. But this is what they'd find if they googled a place to discuss it.

And Nate, it's all good. I was just checking my old messages on here and found a warning I got for calling someone an "itch with a b", but not exactly... It's easy to get heated about the things we're passionate about.

The unwritten policy of RonPaulForums.com in relation to 9/11 Truther talk is to move the thread into the Hot Topics subforum where a internet search can't find it. If you were to poll the people who come here, I bet you'd be amazed at how many would consider themselves truthers or at the very least skeptics. Basically, there will never be a RonPaulForums without the 9/11 talk, or JFK talk, or RFK talk, or MLK talk, or Gulf of Tonkin talk, etc, etc. This thread was bound to venture into false flag attacks eventually. Which means 9/11 talk. Therefore, it probably belongs in Hot Topics, but that's up to the moderators.

Us "Truthers" don't talk about 9/11 in every thread here. I mean holy crap, you should have been here before December '07. There were knock down drag out thread wars, which resulted in the 'move to Hot Topics' policy. It was ridiculous.

So I agree with your point that we shouldn't be only talking about 9/11 Truth here. I don't. Check my posts. Go to infowars.com for that. At RPFs, 9/11 talk is for HT, which is up to the mods to keep a handle on.

Most people who google Ron Paul and find this place will never see Hot Topics because you have to be a member to access that subforum.

I'll +rep you tomorrow. Thanks for keeping a level head.

*My use of the word "mundane" is confusing. My bad. I just meant regular people. Not even complete sheep, although "regular people" can include "sheep" sometimes...... a lot of the time.

 

[KramerDSP]

Besides, the money bomb starts in 23 hours. Can we at least argue about this on Friday?!? It feels like we are all massively distracted, for understandable reasons. The title of the thread is "Uneasy" feeling. Maybe instead of arguing, we could refocus on the uneasy feelings. Again, to each their own.

 

[South Park Fan]

 

[jonhowe]

The unwritten policy of RonPaulForums.com in relation to 9/11 Truther talk is to move the thread into the Hot Topics subforum where a internet search can't find it. If you were to poll the people who come here, I bet you'd be amazed at how many would consider themselves truthers or at the very least skeptics. Basically, there will never be a RonPaulForums without the 9/11 talk, or JFK talk, or RFK talk, or MLK talk, or Gulf of Tonkin talk, etc, etc. This thread was bound to venture into false flag attacks eventually. Which means 9/11 talk. Therefore, it probably belongs in Hot Topics, but that's up to the moderators.

Us "Truthers" don't talk about 9/11 in every thread here. I mean holy crap, you should have been here before December '07. There were knock down drag out thread wars, which resulted in the 'move to Hot Topics' policy. It was ridiculous.

So I agree with your point that we shouldn't be only talking about 9/11 Truth here. I don't. Check my posts. Go to infowars.com for that. At RPFs, 9/11 talk is for HT, which is up to the mods to keep a handle on.

Most people who google Ron Paul and find this place will never see Hot Topics because you have to be a member to access that subforum.

I'll +rep you tomorrow. Thanks for keeping a level head.

See, we all get hot headed. I actually -reped you when you called me a dolt...

Boy is my face red.

 

[Indy Vidual]

Don't worry, be happy.

 

[aravoth]

Does anyone else just feel generally uneasy right now?

Extremely.

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Besides, the money bomb starts in 23 hours. Can we at least argue about this on Friday?!? It feels like we are all massively distracted, for understandable reasons. The title of the thread is "Uneasy" feeling. Maybe instead of arguing, we could refocus on the uneasy feelings. Again, to each their own.

You're right. In fact, I believe this is the desired effect of the media barrage that is the White House.

Refocus. That's what we need.

 

[Lothario]

What's wierd is that it's not just us who are thinking this way. Just look at your facebook page. Mine have more people I know questioning the whole situation as bullshit than not.

Everyone on my facebook page is drunk on the yay america celebratory kool aid... :/

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

See, we all get hot headed. I actually -reped you when you called me a dolt...

Boy is my face red.

i deserved it.

 

[KramerDSP]

Don't worry, be happy.

We all come to this forum because we are kindred spirits in at least one way. We are Ron Paul supporters!