Does America need a standing army?

Should the US government have a standing army?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 35.2%
  • No

    Votes: 116 64.8%

  • Total voters
    179
So why do you think the Swiss never get attacked even with a much smaller military?



I'm assuming you meant to say "We can afford an approx 1 trillion dollar fed budget". ;) Anyway I agree with what you wrote initially (We can't afford a 1 trillion dollar federal budget). And of course this is "my priorities are the ones that can't be cut regardless of whether we actually need them or not" is the reason why we have runaway deficits. Everyone has a sacred cow and they're eating all the grass. That's also why Ron Paul supports significant cuts in the size of the military budget. And I gave you the link. ;)

I support cutting spending across the board, including the Pentagon's budget. But I just support cutting the one third of the Pentagon's budget that it spends on foreign intervention. You don't see very many conservative Republicans like myself who advocate bringing all of our troops home from around the world.
 
Someone needs to let Canada know they need to raise more troops so that they can deter other countries from attacking them :rolleyes:
 
Heck no. Free market FTW.

If the cause is just, you will have NO shortage of motivated folks fleeing to defend Liberty.

A standing army is big part of why we're in the mess we're in today.

Jefferson was right.
 
I support cutting spending across the board, including the Pentagon's budget. But I just support cutting the one third of the Pentagon's budget that it spends on foreign intervention. You don't see very many conservative Republicans like myself who advocate bringing all of our troops home from around the world.

Well, the fact of the matter is that those troops are coming home, regardless.

I'm sure there were millions of Soviet patriots who felt the same way, circa 1990
 
"We must focus our resources on defending the United States rather than on building and maintaining an unsustainable trillion dollar empire overseas"

That quote by Ron Paul is exactly what I've been saying. Also, a 700 billion defense budget would be a 100 billion cut from the current 800 billion defense budget. Nobody in Congress is advocating that large of a cut. (Other than Ron.) Also, the 700 billion number was just an estimate. The number could be lower than that. But I agree with what Rand Paul has said, which is that the defense budget should be about 70-80% of the overall budget.
 
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I've never really understood the term "military industrial complex." You should expand on what exactly you mean.

Well then you’ve also not really understood what you are advocating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex
Military–industrial complex (MIC), or Military–industrial-congressional complex[1] (MICC) is a concept commonly used to refer to policy and monetary relationships between legislators, national armed forces, and the industrial sector that supports them.
 
I support cutting spending across the board, including the Pentagon's budget. But I just support cutting the one third of the Pentagon's budget that it spends on foreign intervention. You don't see very many conservative Republicans like myself who advocate bringing all of our troops home from around the world.

And you don't see many African Americans like me willing to vote in Republican primaries to support Ron Paul either. ;) We all come from different backgrounds with different preconceived notions. But the key to growth is to at least think deeply about those preconceived notions. And the end of the day you might end up with the same notions, as I have largely done on the civil war and the civil rights movement (much to the chagrin of some here), but you should be at least able to understand the other side and better articulate your position.

With that in mind can you answer this question? What deficiency do you see with the Swiss military model? Do you honestly believe the Swiss are in danger of being invaded or that such an invasion could be successful? I don't. Even a modern military has a hard time dealing with a coordinated insurgency. Look at the Soviets in Afghanistan (or us in Afghanistan) or look at Israel's unsuccessful recent attempt to invade Lebanon and destroy Hezbollah. Think of the Swiss militia as mujahadeen on steroids. They go through the same professional training as any Chinese, Russian, American or Israeli solider. Plus they have an air force, and more importantly modern air defense systems. The Swiss wouldn't have to wait on someone else to supply them with the equivalent of stinger missiles.

The other element of the Swiss model that makes them more secure then the U.S. is since they have no large standing army there is no temptation to use it to intervene in foreign countries. I know that you are against foreign adventurism, but the problem is that you aren't the president. I remember reading once after the Bosnian war a general confiding with someone about his frustration with secretary of state Madeline Albright. He was trying to explain to her why the Bosnian intervention was not a good idea (we still have soldiers there by the way), and she responded by saying "What good is having a big military if you aren't going to use it?"

Nor is use in foreign countries the only concern. Remember Katrina? Remember how at first FEMA kept everybody out? Remember that later, after Bush fought with the governor of Louisiana over who should be in charge of the Louisiana national guard deployment, they sent the national guard in with a dual mission of providing aid and confiscating guns?



Remember why this country passed the Posse Comitatus Act? It was to prevent scenes like the one above. This couldn't happen under a Swiss militia model, because the people you would be being asked to disarm would be your fellow troops. But with a large imperial style "professional" military it can happen (already HAS happened in the U.S.) because there is an "us" versus "them".

"We must focus our resources on defending the United States rather than on building and maintaining an unsustainable trillion dollar empire overseas"

That quote by Ron Paul is exactly what I've been saying. Also, a 700 billion defense budget would be a 100 billion cut from the current 800 billion defense budget. Nobody in Congress is advocating that large of a cut. (Other than Ron.) Also, the 700 billion number was just an estimate. The number could be lower than that. But I agree with what Rand Paul has said, which is that the defense budget should be about 70-80% of the overall budget.

Spending nearly 3/4 of a trillion a year hear at home to maintain a force ready to enforce martial law here in America isn't sustainable either. Oh, and you should change the above to say that no republicans in congress other than Ron (and I believe Justin Amash and a few others) are advocating that large of a cut. But there are democrats like Barney Frank who signed on to Ron's large cuts. And that's the problem. You can get republicans to sign on to massive cuts in social spending but not in the military. You can get democrats to sign on to massive cuts in military spending, but not social. It's like the debt is a huge arch with the left side and the right side of the arch propping it up. Here's a better way. Do away with taxes and let people donate to the part of the government they feel is necessary. You think we need 700 billion for the military? You fund it. Someone else thinks millions are needed for space exploration? They should fund that. Someone wants to spend money on education or medical research or anything else? Let that person fund that. But our current system is in reality unsustainable. Thinking there will be a balanced budget based on your priorities is a pipe dream.
 
We lived in a much less dangerous world when our country was founded, so Thomas Jefferson's opinion on standing armies doesn't carry much weight today. I really don't want to return our country to the defenses that we had in the 1700's.

You are the king of straw men. Not having a standing army does not ' return our country to the defenses that we had in the 1700's' and to continually misrepresent the opinions of others as often as you do is both disrespectful and intellectually dishonest.

And I'm still waiting for an answer of any sort to my posts -- why do we need 1.5 million troops on US soil? Where are we going to base them? You can't simply add 50% population to existing bases as you half suggest in one post - that's overcrowding. How are all these new based being paid for? You seem to keep jumping back and forth between wanting these troops for 'defense in case of attack' and 'protecting our borders'...but we don't need 1.5 million troops to do either. So why do we need to keep all 1.5 million?

And perhaps most importantly - who are you actually worried might attack us in this "dangerous world" of yours. So worried about it, in fact, that you advocate having a standing army of 1.5 million soldiers because if we're seen as 'weak' we will be 'attacked'?
 
Isn't "standing army" just a figure of speech? I guess the real question is, does America need a "standing military"?
 
Yes. America should have the largest military in the world and be the world's leading superpower. However, we should use our troops to defend our own country rather than using them to police the world.

Really?

Okay, first off -- do you realize China has about double the number of soldiers we have? So let's actually think through what you're suggesting:

First, you want us to bring home the hundreds of thousands of troops we have stationed around the world, bringing our continental army from just under a million to somewhere nearer 1.5 million (depending on how many troops we keep in our 'territories'). I still don't understand where you see these men and women being based, since you want to keep them active duty, but hey, whatever.

You now are suggesting (perhaps accidentally simply because you haven't thought it through) doubling the size of our military so that we are the "largest military in the world" because for some reason you think we need to have a bigger military than China. So... now we need to recruit, train, feed, house, and equip another 1.5 million troops. But hey, whatever.

But perhaps most ridiculous is this giant gap in logic -- "we should use our troops to defend our own country". Now, completely out of context, that sounds fine. We should use our troops only for defense. Got it! Great! But in context? If that is all we are planning to do with our military, then why in the world would we possibly need 1.5 million troops, let alone the 3 million you're now (perhaps unknowingly) suggesting? You don't need the world's largest standing army to just defend yourself. That's absurd. Especially given our technology and geography, but most importantly, simple logistics.

Are you seriously suggesting if we don't have between 1.5 million to 3 million troops we're in danger of being invaded simply because we "don't have the largest military"?
 
The thread title and the poll question are different.

The name "America" could mean either the American people, or the regime in Washington DC that subjugates them. I want the army of the former to be as large as possible, and the army of the latter to be as small as possible.
 
Better still, why not take this same line of questioning to the logical endpoint: Should there be a State?
 
An army is authorized by the Constitution as well. If you want to get really technical about it, the Air Force is the one branch of the military that isn't authorized by the Constitution.

Actually, the Air Force is the Army. We were called the "Army Air Corps". We branched out from the U.S. Army in 1947. So for the purposes of the Constitution, the Air Force is still the "Army". In my opinion, we should still be under the Department of the Army just like the Marine Corps is under the Department of the Navy... but oh well.
 
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We need a standing army. And airforce. While I certainly understand the dangers of a standing army, we live in a world where another country could launch and attack in a matter of hours.

Slutter McGee
 
We need a standing army. And airforce. While I certainly understand the dangers of a standing army, we live in a world where another country could launch and attack in a matter of hours.

Slutter McGee

It's not the other countries we're worried about.

And what kind of attack launched in a matter of hours do you have in mind?
 
Really?

Okay, first off -- do you realize China has about double the number of soldiers we have? So let's actually think through what you're suggesting:

First, you want us to bring home the hundreds of thousands of troops we have stationed around the world, bringing our continental army from just under a million to somewhere nearer 1.5 million (depending on how many troops we keep in our 'territories'). I still don't understand where you see these men and women being based, since you want to keep them active duty, but hey, whatever.

You now are suggesting (perhaps accidentally simply because you haven't thought it through) doubling the size of our military so that we are the "largest military in the world" because for some reason you think we need to have a bigger military than China. So... now we need to recruit, train, feed, house, and equip another 1.5 million troops. But hey, whatever.

But perhaps most ridiculous is this giant gap in logic -- "we should use our troops to defend our own country". Now, completely out of context, that sounds fine. We should use our troops only for defense. Got it! Great! But in context? If that is all we are planning to do with our military, then why in the world would we possibly need 1.5 million troops, let alone the 3 million you're now (perhaps unknowingly) suggesting? You don't need the world's largest standing army to just defend yourself. That's absurd. Especially given our technology and geography, but most importantly, simple logistics.

Are you seriously suggesting if we don't have between 1.5 million to 3 million troops we're in danger of being invaded simply because we "don't have the largest military"?

I have all your answers. ;)

Like I say, let’s “stand” the 1.5 million troops all around our borders; one troop every 70 yards. We could call it 24/7 360-degree guard duty. Or if you prefer to follow the trend of flashy war names, we could call it something like “Homeland Sentinel”. Seriously, that might actually be the only thing they REALLY have to do anyway. Any real threat of foreign aggression ended when the wall came down, and the MIC/GIC/BIC (military, government, banking complexes) has been making up enemies and conflicts ever since. And it would be a great demonstration to those who believe the complex’s programmed realities and think we need this huge military. The troops would just be standing there picking their noses all day like idiots with nothing to do; in hell or high water or rain or snow - including Hawaii and Alaska. I mean why concentrate them in stupid “bases” where their numbers are wasted? Let’s spread them out and reduce the risk of more false flag ops or other schemes to dupe the public. Let’s put every single one of them to work on the entire perimeter of the USA, including the officers, literally protecting American soil 24/7. Look, it’s the perfect solution. It would save lots of money compared to what’s going on now all over the world, and it’s actually what they are supposed to be doing. And it probably wouldn’t last long; since the “standing army” would soon become laughing stock after everyone literally sees the gigantic waste of money and resources, and troops would begin to be discharged.

(I started this out as a joke, but the more I read what I write, the more sense it makes.)
 
Not really.
Its main purpose though is not defense of the nation. It is about securing corporate interests around the world and defending the government so the people have no real option to revolt.
 
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