Do you support Arizona's right to crack down on illegal immigration?

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Yeah, of course, those are violations of the Arizona Revised Statutes, the laws the police are empowered here to enforce.

All drivers are already required to have their driver's licenses with them when they drive. Everyone knows this, and has known it, since they turned 16 and got their license.

In any event, if someone is pulled over who doesn't have their license, they will be fined, and will be released when the police officer determines who the driver in fact is, and whether the car is stolen.

Driving has a specific context commercial or privileged in nature. Travel (by whatever means of the day) is a natural right inherent to being a human being just like self defense.

Personal travel using ones personal property does not require papers. If you are traveling using any means that utilizes fuel you pay use tax for public roads.

 

[bchavez]

LOL....

MASTER POLL HERE:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=241788

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

LOL....

MASTER POLL HERE:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=241788

Two different questions.

1) Do I support Arizona: No
2) Do I support the people of Arizona's right to self government: Yes

 

[speciallyblend]

Yeah, of course, those are violations of the Arizona Revised Statutes, the laws the police are empowered here to enforce.

All drivers are already required to have their driver's licenses with them when they drive. Everyone knows this, and has known it, since they turned 16 and got their license.

In any event, if someone is pulled over who doesn't have their license, they will be fined, and will be released when the police officer determines who the driver in fact is, and whether the car is stolen.

so your ok with american citizens getting stopped and showing their proper paperwork and still getting arrested??? because that has already happened to a us citizen in az!!

 

[John Taylor]

Driving has a specific context commercial or privileged in nature. Travel (by whatever means of the day) is a natural right inherent to being a human being just like self defense.

Personal travel using ones personal property does not require papers. If you are traveling using any means that utilizes fuel you pay use tax for public roads.

Ok, next time you pay a traffic ticket or are jailed for driving without a driver's license, come on back and tell us your story. States have general police powers, which they may excercise to require folks to possess a driver's license qualifying them to drive on the road system. If you want to walk along on private property like Bilbo Baggins, that's your affair.

 

[John Taylor]

so your ok with american citizens getting stopped and showing their proper paperwork and still getting arrested??? because that has already happened to a us citizen in az!!

No. I'm not ok with that.

I'm well aware of what happened to Pastor Anderson here in Tempe.

He was arrested for more than "showing their proper paperwork"...

His behavior would have aroused suspicon in even the most neutral police officer (not defending physically harming him in any way, just the reasoning for taking him out of his car at a lawfully executed roadblock and interdiction point).

 

[krazy kaju]

Let me reiterate what John Taylor conveniently ignored:
1. Being in the United States illegally is, well, illegal.
2. This law states that, in John's own words "people who are stopped under reasonable suspicion of committing a crime be able to demonstrate their legal status."
3. Therefore, the police will be able to stop anyone on the street under the "reasonable suspicion" that they are an illegal immigrant.

 

[John Taylor]

Let me reiterate what John Taylor conveniently ignored:
1. Being in the United States illegally is, well, illegal.
2. This law states that, in John's own words "people who are stopped under reasonable suspicion of committing a crime be able to demonstrate their legal status."
3. Therefore, the police will be able to stop anyone on the street under the "reasonable suspicion" that they are an illegal immigrant.

1) True, these millions of people are here illegally.

2) True, this is the federal law on the books for 50 years.

3) False, this is a non sequitor and has nothing to do with reality. A reasonable suspicion is not that one person out of 30 may be illegally in the country, and thus we need to stop everyone, it is when a police officer sees a car roll through a stop sign and pulls it over... he has reasonable suspicion that the law was broken, and he may now ask to see a driver's license and proof of legal residency.

 

[Danke]

Driving has a specific context commercial or privileged in nature. Travel (by whatever means of the day) is a natural right inherent to being a human being just like self defense.

Personal travel using ones personal property does not require papers. If you are traveling using any means that utilizes fuel you pay use tax for public roads.

See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2666431&postcount=2

 

[silus]

Your poll is fucking terrible.

 

[phill4paul]

There are many reasons that America is in the state that it is in with regards to jobs,wages, crimes and welfare.

The focus should be on federal government and what it has done to create these problems not an ethnic group nor immigrants legal or illegal.

Individuals or groups of individuals did not create the problems that the government would have us find scapegoats for.

International trade agreements, inflation of currency, prohibition laws without weight of Constitutional amendments and out of control vote pandering have created this problem.

Don't lose sight of the brass ring.

 

[speciallyblend]

No. I'm not ok with that.

I'm well aware of what happened to Pastor Anderson here in Tempe.

He was arrested for more than "showing their proper paperwork"...

His behavior would have aroused suspicon in even the most neutral police officer (not defending physically harming him in any way, just the reasoning for taking him out of his car at a lawfully executed roadblock and interdiction point).

i am not talking about pastor anderson,unless he is a commercial truck driver??

YouTube - 4409 -- Arrested over Arizona's Real I.D. Paper's Please SB1070 bill

 

[bchavez]

Your poll is fucking terrible.

Let's have a poll about who's poll is better.

Looks like mine is in the lead...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=241788

haha poll madness in General Politics...

 

[krazy kaju]

1) True, these millions of people are here illegally.

2) True, this is the federal law on the books for 50 years.

3) False, this is a non sequitor and has nothing to do with reality. A reasonable suspicion is not that one person out of 30 may be illegally in the country, and thus we need to stop everyone, it is when a police officer sees a car roll through a stop sign and pulls it over... he has reasonable suspicion that the law was broken, and he may now ask to see a driver's license and proof of legal residency.

You're using a straw man to claim a non sequitur. I'm not claiming that the police will now be able to stop every 30th person. I am claiming that the police will now be able to stop and demand papers from anyone who the police suspect to be an illegal immigrant - in this case it would be anyone who "looks" like an illegal immigrant or anyone who has characteristics that would be typical of an illegal immigrant (e.g. someone who doesn't speak fluent English and looks foreign). This law is ripe to be abused not only by racists but by any corrupt cop who doesn't like immigrants.

 

[catdd]

Shouldn't a drivers license be enough proof of legal residency as long as it isn't expired? I mean they can run a DMV search on all that right then.

 

[dannno]

3) False, this is a non sequitor and has nothing to do with reality. A reasonable suspicion is not that one person out of 30 may be illegally in the country, and thus we need to stop everyone, it is when a police officer sees a car roll through a stop sign and pulls it over... he has reasonable suspicion that the law was broken, and he may now ask to see a driver's license and proof of legal residency.

That isn't what the bill says, it doesn't say anything about being in a car or pulled over.

It says what me and Kaju are saying.. an officer can SAY that they have reasonable suspicion that person X is not a citizen and ask them for documentation.. if the person is a NBC, they might be lawfully not carrying any paperwork, in which case a citizen's 4th amendment rights will be violated and they can sue in the supreme court. Judge Napolitano agrees, Ron Paul agrees, anybody in their right mind agrees. You are being dense.

This is the 33rd time I've explained this concept to you (and I am not even joking for those reading this)

 

[dannno]

This law is ripe to be abused not only by racists but by any corrupt cop who doesn't like immigrants.

I believe it will be used against people of other races as well... I mean, it already has been, why wouldn't they do it more?

"Hey!! You look like an Irish immigrant! Show me your papers! No papers? Go to jail."

But of course we are dealing with somebody who doesn't understand the nature of the police state.

 

[MelissaWV]

Shouldn't a drivers license be enough proof of legal residency as long as it isn't expired? I mean they can run a DMV search on all that right then.

You are not required by law to have a driver's license, and children should not have them. Additionally, the new scam as far as stealing identity is to duplicate a license. You may "match" a known (and now repeat) illegal, which is cause to take you in. Arizona is number one in identity theft.

 

[Light]

lol, I see that liberaltarian is an apt term for a lot of people on this site. Heck, we have people throw around the r-word (racist) and h-word (homophobe) as much as their leftist counterparts.

 

[AuH20]

I believe it will be used against people of other races as well... I mean, it already has been, why wouldn't they do it more?

"Hey!! You look like an Irish immigrant! Show me your papers! No papers? Go to jail."

But of course we are dealing with somebody who doesn't understand the nature of the police state.

So explain to me how we can solve this complex problem? How do we protect the citizens of Arizona from the myriad of crimes being perpetrated against them? Do we enact a legal defense fund for ranchers who use lethal force to repel home invasions? How do we tackle kidnappings and other complex skirmishes that occur between the border?