Deleted Forbes Article: Psychiatric Drugs, Not A Lack Of Gun Control,-The Common Denominat

[Zippyjuan]

You are right. Guns were indeed the most common denominator. Would be impossible to shoot anybody without one. On pills or not. And as I said, millions of people with guns don't go around shooting innocent people up. And there are also millions of people taking those medications who are not shooting innocent people up.

 

[tod evans]

So what's it going to take to get honest, unbiased information about guns/drugs and the law in front of the populace?

 

[TheGrinch]

You are right. Guns were indeed the most common denominator. Would be impossible to shoot anybody without one. On pills or not. And as I said, millions of people with guns don't go around shooting innocent people up. And there are also millions of people taking those medications who are not shooting innocent people up.

Ummm, people react to medication differently than others, so your argument is flawed.

You're absolutely right, having a gun may not be any better predictor of violence than taking a medication is that you will have a particular side effect, but it's pretty clear that there can be the potential for both with both, and when both are the common denominators, well, you decide if you want to investigate/point to the tool or the potentially behavior-altering medication.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Which came first? Behavior which led to them being prescribed medicine- behavior which could have led to their actions even if they were not given any meds? Or were they peaceful, well-adjusted people and the medications changed their behivior to being psychotic? Given the large numbers of people on the meds who don't go psychotic, I am more inclined to think that the behavior came first and that the meds were not the primary cause.

 

[pcosmar]

Which came first?

Oh, what an interesting question.
Social Control.
You seriously don't want to investigate that.

These drugs are, by definition, Mind Control Drugs. Their entire purpose is to alter the mind.
The people involved in their production and distribution have shown a serious lack of ethics historically.

You don't even want to investigate that. You work too hard at discouraging any investigation.
(usually citing gov approved sites as facts.)

 

[Zippyjuan]

OK- it was drugs. Let's ban all drugs- especially those which could altar the mind. Including alcohol and marijuana and LSD. That will surely stop people from shooting each other and everybody will be happy again.

 

[TheGrinch]

Which came first? Behavior which led to them being prescribed medicine- behavior which could have led to their actions even if they were not given any meds? Or were they peaceful, well-adjusted people and the medications changed their behivior to being psychotic? Given the large numbers of people on the meds who don't go psychotic, I am more inclined to think that the behavior came first and that the meds were not the primary cause.

I don't know, hence why it's important to investigate. Shame the media has too many conflicts of interests to allow that discussion.

And seriously, have you ever listened to the side-effects of these drugs, and then tell me with a straight face that you're positive that they had nothing to do with otherwise non-violent people turn into killing machines due to depression?

 

[Zippyjuan]

Such events are too rare to find a single cause. And it is doubtful there is one cause.

 

[TheGrinch]

Such events are too rare to find a single cause. And it is doubtful there is one cause.

Okay good, case closed, nothing to see here, I can see why they were right to pull any article that offers any sort of explanation. The govenrment and media know what they're doing and would never ever lie or cover up facts.

 

[AFPVet]

You are right. Guns were indeed the most common denominator. Would be impossible to shoot anybody without one. On pills or not. And as I said, millions of people with guns don't go around shooting innocent people up. And there are also millions of people taking those medications who are not shooting innocent people up.

You can do much more carnage with a chainsaw... what's next?

 

[Danan]

Do you understand the concept of Common Denominator?

Millions of Gun owners do not shoot up schools.

But every one that does is using these pills that are admittedly known to cause violent and suicidal reactions.

You've got to agree that people who are already depressed (and are therefore likely to take those drugs) seem to be more likely to commit such terrible actions (whether or not they actually take drugs) than those who are fine, on an emotional basis. And since depressed people are likely to take drugs and if gunmen are likely to be depressed, it's only logical that gunmen are likely to take those drugs.

People who commit mass shootings are a terrible small sample size to extrapolate anything. Every obvious correlation could be coincidence (because of the small sample size), insignificant (like the fact that most gunmen ate bread), could indicate actual causation, could mean that both phenomena are (partly) caused by the same root cause (like being depressed increases a person's likelyhood to a) take drugs and b) become a gunman), etc.

I'm not ruling out that side effects of psychotropic drugs can contribute to insane decisions. But just because most gunmen took those drugs doesn't convince me either that they are the root cause.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

OK- it was drugs. Let's ban all drugs- especially those which could altar the mind. Including alcohol and marijuana and LSD. That will surely stop people from shooting each other and everybody will be happy again.

Alcohol related violence was one of the drivers for alcohol prohibition the first time around...

 

[Danan]

And seriously, have you ever listened to the side-effects of these drugs, and then tell me with a straight face that you're positive that they had nothing to do with otherwise non-violent people turn into killing machines due to depression?

They are designed to alter the state of your mind in some way, so obviously it is possible that some of those shootings would not have happened had the gunmen not taken those drugs. On the other hand, they may have also prevented several shootings. There is really no way to tell.

I know someone very close to me who told me (and I was very critical of psychotropic drugs at that time) that certain drugs increased her quality of life dramatically (panic disorder, some serotonin-related drug). She told me that taking a few drops of that medicine enables her to go outside and participate in normal, social situations (like shopping, going out, etc.) without the constant, horrible fear of having a panic disorder in public. And I'm really not a position to judge that what she told me is wrong.

 

[pcosmar]

OK- it was drugs. Let's ban all drugs- especially those which could altar the mind. Including alcohol and marijuana and LSD. That will surely stop people from shooting each other and everybody will be happy again.

No,, wrong approach.
Has been tried and failed miserably.

LSD has proven therapeutic uses. Long before it was tested for used in the MK ULTRA Programs. Tests which found it to be unsuitable for the goals.
Big Pharma and over 80 research institutes worked to develop other substances though.

Marijuana also has therapeutic used and some of these SSRIs may have as well,, though I am skeptical.

I would rather see the War on Drugs end as well as the Medical Monopolies.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

They are designed to alter the state of your mind in some way, so obviously it is possible that some of those shootings would not have happened had the gunmen not taken those drugs. On the other hand, they may have also prevented several shootings. There is really no way to tell.

90% of mass shooters were on these drugs. For the remaining 10%, in most if not all cases if they were on SSRI's was simply not reported. About 1 in 25 teenagers are on SSRI's.

I know someone very close to me who told me (and I was very critical of psychotropic drugs at that time) that certain drugs increased her quality of life dramatically (panic disorder, some serotonin-related drug). She told me that taking a few drops of that medicine enables her to go outside and participate in normal, social situations (like shopping, going out, etc.) without the constant, horrible fear of having a panic disorder in public. And I'm really not a position to judge that what she told me is wrong.

Sometimes the drugs help. Sometimes they make the conditions worse. But for the most part, what is being treated is not a violent condition, but the treatment sometimes triggers violent behavior in a small percentage of the population.

-t

 

[Zippyjuan]

No,, wrong approach.
Has been tried and failed miserably.

LSD has proven therapeutic uses. Long before it was tested for used in the MK ULTRA Programs. Tests which found it to be unsuitable for the goals.
Big Pharma and over 80 research institutes worked to develop other substances though.

Marijuana also has therapeutic used and some of these SSRIs may have as well,, though I am skeptical.

I would rather see the War on Drugs end as well as the Medical Monopolies.

Which was actually my point. These events aren't happening because of prescription medications or guns and banning either will not prevent them from happening in the future. They are isolated cases of messed up kids.

 

[cbrons]

You've got to agree that people who are already depressed (and are therefore likely to take those drugs) seem to be more likely to commit such terrible actions (whether or not they actually take drugs) than those who are fine, on an emotional basis. And since depressed people are likely to take drugs and if gunmen are likely to be depressed, it's only logical that gunmen are likely to take those drugs.

People who commit mass shootings are a terrible small sample size to extrapolate anything. Every obvious correlation could be coincidence (because of the small sample size), insignificant (like the fact that most gunmen ate bread), could indicate actual causation, could mean that both phenomena are (partly) caused by the same root cause (like being depressed increases a person's likelyhood to a) take drugs and b) become a gunman), etc.

I'm not ruling out that side effects of psychotropic drugs can contribute to insane decisions. But just because most gunmen took those drugs doesn't convince me either that they are the root cause.

How much is Big Pharma paying you?!?!?!?!

 

[pcosmar]

Which was actually my point. These events aren't happening because of prescription medications or guns and banning either will not prevent them from happening in the future. They are isolated cases of messed up kids.

Shit,, I was a messed up kid. I went to school with a thousand other messed up kids..
We had guns..

None of this shit was happening.. but that was before this crap hit the population. Before ADD was invented for the Drugs to treat it.

 

[cbrons]

Shit,, I was a messed up kid. I went to school with a thousand other messed up kids..
We had guns..

None of this shit was happening.. but that was before this crap hit the population. Before ADD was invented for the Drugs to treat it.

There also wasn't exceedingly violent video games and a culture that was increasingly morally relativistic.

 

[pcosmar]

There also wasn't exceedingly violent video games and a culture that was increasingly morally relativistic.

Naw, we had "Combat" "The Rat patrol" and "Dark Shadows".

Violence and Murder generally have a reason. A specific reason,, sometimes called motive.

When someone with no history of violence kills for no apparent reason. (especially random and pointless killing)
It does beg questions.