DC Police Chief Responds to Adam Kokesh's Planned Armed March

[kathy88]

How many people would wake up if Several thousand armed veterans are arrested for excercising their rights? I'm thinking MANY. How much bigger would the next event be? Where's the tipping point?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Okay. Education of the masses. Right now, this movement is so small of a minority that it's like a mouse in a sea of cats. Marching through DC with loaded rifles (at least I think that's what I heard) can be easily crushed, spinned, and ultimately destroyed. As an anarcho-capitalist I hold the TSA to be, by default, tyrannical, however this doesn't mean I protest every time I want to fly. This may be viewed as "exercising your freedom" (and it is) but with the gang of thieves in power, it's just plain fatuous. To bring about real change takes an academic revolution, not an armed one.

You are really underestimating the liberty movement. "So small it's like a mouse in a sea of cats?"

Puh-lease, you know we're not THAT small. This movement is actually quite popular.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Okay. Education of the masses. Right now, this movement is so small of a minority that it's like a mouse in a sea of cats. Marching through DC with loaded rifles (at least I think that's what I heard) can be easily crushed, spinned, and ultimately destroyed. As an anarcho-capitalist I hold the TSA to be, by default, tyrannical, however this doesn't mean I protest every time I want to fly. This may be viewed as "exercising your freedom" (and it is) but with the gang of thieves in power, it's just plain fatuous. To bring about real change takes an academic revolution, not an armed one.

Go back and tell the revolutionaries in the American Revolution that. I'm sure they would have loved to waste another millenium trying to education hundreds of millions of people.

 

[Philhelm]

Felony and they will all end up prohibited persons and never be able to own a gun again.

Which, of course, is why it is important never to surrender your weapon to begin with.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

it gains in the same way obama winning over romney is a gain....
the people in louisiana will be agitated by a show of federal force against open carry protestors.
and i don't think this state is the only one.
this event will agitate. the pigs are playing their part as expected.

the pigs could neutralize kokesh by allowing him to march around without a fuss, or even act like- they don't even know what his problem is.. he can protest all he wants. then kokesh looks like a fool and the situation dies out.
that isn't happening is it.
you have no rights, only the privileges granted to you by a certain jurisdiction.
d.c. says you can't carry a firearm. therefore, you don't have the right.

that notion is false.

You're right, they won't allow it no matter what. But even if they did, I certainly don't think it would make Kokesh look like a fool. These issues are real and represent real controversies over unconstitutional laws that are still in place and are going into effect as we speak. The police letting 1000 armed marchers march through washington is a sign that the people still have the power to change things. It would not neutralize the event if they allowed it, but like you said, they won't allow it anyone because of what I just stated.

 

[tod evans]

100 IQ is average. Didn't know if you knew that.

No, I'm obviously sub-par and need a refresher....

 

[SkepticalMetal]

Go back and tell the revolutionaries in the American Revolution that. I'm sure they would have loved to waste another millenium trying to education hundreds of millions of people.

Yeah, and the revolution really got us somewhere, right? This place is right back where it started. Political revolution never has any lasting value - as a believer in non-aggression, if people want to demonstrate their right to bear arms in this manner (despite the fact that it's nothing to gain and everything to lose) then I can't stop them.

 

[Weston White]

OK, so "with loaded firearms is a violation of the law ", but what about when the firearms are UNLOADED is still a violation incurred (which from my understanding is the plan)?

 

[RickyJ]

If you want to get real attention, and really make a statement, you don't tell them you are going to have a march, you just do it. He knew they weren't going to let him do this, so this amounts to nothing more than a publicity stunt. The police very well might arrest people before they even have a chance to march now.

 

[Working Poor]

I really don't want a real civil war. I think this event is likely to get one going. Cause the liberty moveme.nt does seem popular.

On the other hand if it goes down the way Adam says to make a big court case that could be a good thing to tie up the court.

 

[RickyJ]

I really don't want a real civil war. I think this event is likely to get one going. Cause the liberty moveme.nt does seem popular

Whether you want one or not the police and government have shown they are coming for us, you either fight them or they will kill you or put you in prison and torture you.

 

[torchbearer]

OK, so "with loaded firearms is a violation of the law ", but what about when the firearms are UNLOADED is still a violation incurred (which from my understanding is the plan)?

just stop.
if this is going where i think its going-

it makes no sense to carry a gun unloaded. it isn't really "arms" unless you can use it as armament.
the gun is basically useless without ammo. why would you holster a gun with no ammo? maybe you plan to give it to an enemy in a trick?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Yeah, and the revolution really got us somewhere, right? This place is right back where it started. Political revolution never has any lasting value - as a believer in non-aggression, if people want to demonstrate their right to bear arms in this manner (despite the fact that it's nothing to gain and everything to lose) then I can't stop them.

So violent revolution doesn't work, and political revolution doesn't have any lasting value? Just what is it you plan on doing, then?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

just stop.
if this is going where i think its going-

it makes no sense to carry a gun unloaded. it isn't really "arms" unless you can use it as armament.
the gun is basically useless without ammo. why would you holster a gun with no ammo? maybe you plan to give it to an enemy in a trick?

It wouldn't be much of a statement if the guns were unloaded. It would be like saying, "Oooh, look how scary this gun is!" when ammo means there is the real potential for the gun to actually be used at the owner's discretion.

 

[torchbearer]

It wouldn't be much of a statement if the guns were unloaded. It would be like saying, "Oooh, look how scary this gun is!" when ammo means there is the real potential for the gun to actually be used at the owner's discretion.

even on an everyday basis, it would be ridiculous to carry an unloaded weapon around.

 

[RickyJ]

How many people would wake up if Several thousand armed veterans are arrested for excercising their rights? I'm thinking MANY. How much bigger would the next event be? Where's the tipping point?

Very few because it won't be covered. No one will cover it, so it will be like it did not happen to the sheeple. The sheeple only watch main stream news, if it is not on there they don't believe it.

 

[Dr.3D]

even on an everyday basis, it would be ridiculous to carry an unloaded weapon around.

Openly carrying an unloaded weapon may even be a darned right dangerous thing to do.

 

[SkepticalMetal]

So violent revolution doesn't work, and political revolution doesn't have any lasting value? Just what is it you plan on doing, then?

My own way of going about things is talking to people about the evils of statism, and convincing them of the Rothbardian anarchist position. If you wish to demonstrate your freedom to carry a weapon openly even with thugs standing by to deprive you of that then, as I said, I can't stop you, but I simply believe that there are better ways to go about promoting liberty, especially ways in which it will last a lot longer. Although I don't agree with playing politics, Ron Paul got the movement where he did today by educating people on the evils of the state, not through taking to the streets with guns.

And, on a further note, I leave you with Neodoxy from the Mises forums:
"How about you go and smoke weed in public until a cop comes and tries and stop you. When he does why don't you pull out an illegally purchased gun and kill the police officer? It's individualist, right? It's libertarian to defend your property, right? Therefore it can't be stupid to do something if its libertarian, individualistic, and how things should be, right? That's the same logic that you're using and I have yet to see you provide a substantive chain of reasoning for it."

 

[TheTexan]

...Yeah, but the point is that there are so many ways this could go wrong and backfire that it inherently makes the whole thing a bad idea. The first part of where it's bad is where the cops come in - when they decide to intervene (and if there are 1000 or over then they might justify calling in the National Guard) - there is a substantial possibility that it could turn into a bloodbath. Regardless of whether or not that actually happens, the Media would most likely spin it in every way they can. If nothing serious happens, they could easily paint it as a bunch of "kooky old farts with guns" who aren't for "progressive" ideals. If something serious DOES happen, then they will be easily able to make it look like the gun-marchers brought it upon themselves, were threatening "national security," starting a violent insurrection, trying to eliminate good old American freedoms, trying to harm police officers...etc. Long story short, whatever there is to gain from this is microscopic, but what there is to lose is so massive that it's borderline absurdist.

The media is a mouthpiece for the liberals, and the state. The people that I think this event is trying to reach, already know that. Anything that we ever do, that is significant for the advancement of liberty, will be met with hostility and derision from the media.

The only way to avoid having the media used against us, is to do nothing, which is a pretty fucking shitty plan at this point I do believe.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

My own way of going about things is talking to people about the evils of statism, and convincing them of the Rothbardian anarchist position. If you wish to demonstrate your freedom to carry a weapon openly even with thugs standing by to deprive you of that then, as I said, I can't stop you, but I simply believe that there are better ways to go about promoting liberty, especially ways in which it will last a lot longer. Although I don't agree with playing politics, Ron Paul got the movement where he did today by educating people on the evils of the state, not through taking to the streets with guns.

And, on a further note, I leave you with Neodoxy from the Mises forums:
"How about you go and smoke weed in public until a cop comes and tries and stop you. When he does why don't you pull out an illegally purchased gun and kill the police officer? It's individualist, right? It's libertarian to defend your property, right? Therefore it can't be stupid to do something if its libertarian, individualistic, and how things should be, right? That's the same logic that you're using and I have yet to see you provide a substantive chain of reasoning for it."

When you say, "ways that will last longer", you really mean, "Ways that will take longer to come to fruition, and in fact, may never come to fruition at all."