Daily Kos quotes Ron Paul Forums | Paul Ryan Pick Swings Libertarians to Obama

[Brett85]

Voting for either one, regardless of where you live, is a total sell out of the principles we're supposed to be all about here.

That said, from a purely political standpoint, a Romney win would be a disaster for what we are supposed to be doing here, and would set back our efforts by decades.

The thing I don't like about all of this is this whole idea of group think, that you aren't allowed to vote a certain way because you're a member of some club. I'm on the record as saying that I won't vote for Romney this time, but if he becomes President, I won't rule out voting to re-elect him if I think that he's leading our country in the right direction overall. But my decision not to vote for him this time around has nothing to do with people telling me that I'm not allowed to vote for him, or else I'll be kicked out of the "liberty movement." That type of tactic that people here use I simply despise, to be honest. Libertarianism is supposed to be an ideology where people think for themselves, not engage in some type of group think, where every member of the group has to vote a certain way. Every single individual simply needs to think for themselves, rather than feeling like they have to engage in group think and just do whatever the group says to do.

 

[Anti Federalist]

The thing I don't like about all of this is this whole idea of group think, that you aren't allowed to vote a certain way because you're a member of some club. I'm on the record as saying that I won't vote for Romney this time, but if he becomes President, I won't rule out voting to re-elect him if I think that he's leading our country in the right direction overall. But my decision not to vote for him this time around has nothing to do with people telling me that I'm not allowed to vote for him, or else I'll be kicked out of the "liberty movement." That type of tactic that people here use I simply despise, to be honest. Libertarianism is supposed to be an ideology where people think for themselves, not engage in some type of group think, where every member of the group has to vote a certain way. Every single individual simply needs to think for themselves, rather than feeling like they have to engage in group think and just do whatever the group says to do.

Meh, sometimes collective action has to be taken.

Politics is, unfortunately, one of those times.

Of course, you're free to do whatever you wish, and I'm not in the business of drumming people out of anything, but, the fact is, a unified vote and voice is what will get the message across to the GOP leadership that they will lose, over and over and over again if they continue this direction and ignore us.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Shameless cross post that says what I think about this.


I hope that Mutt gets a mud hole stomped in his ass come November, and that it is perfectly clear that the reason for that is because "we" sat on our hands.

I don't want the mainstreamers to like us, or even understand us.

I want them to only do two things, march their dumb asses into a voting booth and hold their nose for a change, and then get the hell out of the way.

The GOP has no one to blame for the coming train wreck other than themselves.

We gave them an honorable family man, with a thirty year record of integrity and adherence to the constitution, who was the only man with a realistic chance of "beating" Obama, by bringing in young, undecided and disenfranchised voters.

They, the establishment GOP, in turn, rejected that, spit in our face, mocked us, scorned us, beat us up and had us arrested, among other things.

Fuck them.

No One But Paul

 

[AbVag]

People don't have to vote for Obama, all they have to do is not vote for Romney and the end result will be the same.

As long as Romney loses.

 

[pcosmar]

Every single individual simply needs to think for themselves, rather than feeling like they have to engage in group think and just do whatever the group says to do.

I do, as do most in this thread.. And I get annoyed with people trying to push the GOP down our throats like they are some kind of saviors.

I won't vote for Obama,, but he may well be the better choice here.

Bush gave us the Patriot Act and TSA,, Obama only continued them.
Romney gave the Health care,, Obama only expanded on that. (it is a copy of Romneycare)

Obama has been delaying War with Iran,,for whatever his reasons.. I don't Care. McCain would have jumped at the chance to attack and Romney Has promised to.

I won't vote for either,, but we will (barring some miracle) be stuck with one of them.

And the GOP can kiss my ass. Their actions through this whole primary are purely criminal.

 

[AuH20]

A vote for Obama is lunacy if you're a true RP supporter. I'm going to sit this one out just like 2008. No vote for either major party.

 

[Brett85]

It's just that I do know people who voted for Ron Paul in the primary who are going to vote for Romney in the general election. One of them is a friend of mine I went to college with, and I was pretty surprised he voted for Ron in the primary, to be honest. He's come a long ways since then, becoming much more liberty oriented. (As have I) But I just don't believe that his support for Romney in the general election means that he was any less of a Ron Paul supporter than those RP supporters who are going to vote 3rd party or vote for Obama.

 

[JoshLowry]

The people who are actually going to vote for Obama are taking this too far. It's no wonder the GOP establishment despises Ron Paul and his supporters so much.

Anyone who calls themselves a "Libertarian" and votes for Obama in 2012, knowing all he's done as President, is a retard.

Tha usual suspects.

Do you think the people posting here are going to be corralled into doing something that benefits the GOP and/or Romney?

Shameless cross post that says what I think about this.


I hope that Mutt gets a mud hole stomped in his ass come November, and that it is perfectly clear that the reason for that is because "we" sat on our hands.

I don't want the mainstreamers to like us, or even understand us.

I want them to only do two things, march their dumb asses into a voting booth and hold their nose for a change, and then get the hell out of the way.

The GOP has no one to blame for the coming train wreck other than themselves.

We gave them an honorable family man, with a thirty year record of integrity and adherence to the constitution, who was the only man with a realistic chance of "beating" Obama, by bringing in young, undecided and disenfranchised voters.

They, the establishment GOP, in turn, rejected that, spit in our face, mocked us, scorned us, beat us up and had us arrested, among other things.

Fuck them.

No One But Paul

I like that too.

 

[Brett85]

And I get annoyed with people trying to push the GOP down our throats like they are some kind of saviors.

I'm not promoting anybody. I'm just saying that people can think for themselves.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It's just that I do know people who voted for Ron Paul in the primary who are going to vote for Romney in the general election. One of them is a friend of mine I went to college with, and I was pretty surprised he voted for Ron in the primary, to be honest. He's come a long ways since then, becoming much more liberty oriented. (As have I) But I just don't believe that his support for Romney in the general election means that he was any less of a Ron Paul supporter than those RP supporters who are going to vote 3rd party or vote for Obama.

Romney represents a 180 degree range of separation from what RP represents.

So your friend either doesn't understand things clearly enough yet, or disapproves of Obama enough to want to be rid of him, even if it means, for all intents and purposes, replacing him with the same thing.

 

[Brett85]

Do you think the people posting here are going to be corralled into doing something that benefits the GOP and/or Romney?

Neither RonPaulFanINGA nor I have promoted Romney in any way. We've simply made the obvious point that Obama doesn't hold a single pro liberty position, so it makes no sense at all for any libertarian to vote for him.

 

[JoshLowry]

I'm not promoting anybody. I'm just saying that people can think for themselves.

The people who are actually going to vote for Obama are taking this too far. It's no wonder the GOP establishment despises Ron Paul and his supporters so much.

 

[Brett85]

Romney represents a 180 degree range of separation from what RP represents.

Not true at all. Even Ron Paul has mentioned areas where he and Romney agree, such as opposing tax increases and reducing regulations. I have a big problem with Romney's foreign policy, which is the main reason I'm not voting for him. But to say that he and Ron Paul disagree on everything is flat out false. You must have missed the primary where Ron Paul basically refused to ever criticize Romney for anything.

 

[AuH20]

Not true at all. Even Ron Paul has mentioned areas where he and Romney agree, such as opposing tax increases and reducing regulations. I have a big problem with Romney's foreign policy, which is the main reason I'm not voting for him. But to say that he and Ron Paul disagree on everything is flat out false. You must have missed the primary where Ron Paul basically refused to ever criticize Romney for anything.

Ron Paul stated that Romney would be slightly better than Obama. But like I said, that is not enough to warrant a vote for him.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Neither RonPaulFanINGA nor I have promoted Romney in any way. We've simply made the obvious point that Obama doesn't hold a single pro liberty position, so it makes no sense at all for any libertarian to vote for him.

No, not from that angle it doesn't.

But if we are to assume that all this is legit and on the up and up, then there is a strategic logic here, especially for people in swing states.

Neither Obama of Romney have anything to offer from a liberty perspective.

So, what would work out better?

A lame duck Obama and a chance to do this all again in 2016?

Or a re-invigorated neo-con GOP wing in power for another 8 years, coupled with compliant congress?

 

[Brett85]

Ron Paul supporters can vote for Obama if they want. I'm just saying that it doesn't really help the cause of liberty candidates within the GOP when word gets out that Obama is being supported by Ron Paul supporters.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Rand supporters should be hoping and praying that Obama wins. Otherwise, there is zero chance Rand will ever be in the White House. Except as a guest or tourist.

 

[JoshLowry]

Thanks for giving everyone permission to do whatever they want.

The GOP chose poorly.

 

[Brett85]

A lame duck Obama and a chance to do this all again in 2016?

Well, it seems like the majority of people here don't even like Rand, so I don't know who you're going to support in 2016.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Not true at all. Even Ron Paul has mentioned areas where he and Romney agree, such as opposing tax increases and reducing regulations. I have a big problem with Romney's foreign policy, which is the main reason I'm not voting for him. But to say that he and Ron Paul disagree on everything is flat out false. You must have missed the primary where Ron Paul basically refused to ever criticize Romney for anything.

What you are missing is the years that I watched Romney work in Massachusetts and why I can say, with no hesitation, that his rhetoric now is just bluster and bullshit.

I have no good answer for why the RP campaign kissed Romney's ass all during the campaign.

I have my suspicions however.