Cruz is better than Trump or Rubio, due to the Rand Factor - Let's Caucus for Cruz

[The Gold Standard]

Kiss my ass. I will never have the bloodshed Cruz would inflict on the world on my hands.

 

[Makes Interesting Points]

This is the type of shit that makes me never want to vote for Cruz. If he or Trump ran an honest campaign I would have sympathies. The bastard is even too chicken shit to ask for our votes or try to earn them he has to cheat us out of votes by running rough-shot over Rand's campaign messages and lying to supporters by saying that he has the same values or that their candidate is dropping out in order to steal votes. If I was a betting man he is running on Bush's old tricks if you can't beat them cheat them, and he will probably pick bush for VP.

You'd probably make more money in sales, or in telemarketing. You've got incredible technique. You almost sold me on your scam.

I think we libertarians and paleocons should be careful not to use nitpicky logical elitism on the internet, where people stick a needle in a less relevant part of a topic and then use aggression to give the illusion that they're making a point which is better than what they're actually saying. This style of logic only encourages the elitism culture of the internet, which is the reason why liberals are running so rampant and have a stranglehold on internet and youth political culture.

On the subject of vice presidents, I will say that if Cruz wins the nomination and picks Bush or Rubio as VP, I would feel betrayed so much that I'd consider voting Democrat to protest.

 

[nikcers]

Meh, I will vote for Cruz, but don't feel the need to make longwinded posts about it. I guess he's ok.

You've been posting about your love for Canadian bacon for months now. You've said it in multiple threads, that's why you don't want to make a long-winded post.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I will never vote for Cruz.

 

[CPUd]

To me, Rand is a 10/10, Cruz is a 6/10, and everyone else is irrelevant. Yes, the USA Freedom Act is shaky for sure, but Cruz's public statements as to why he voted for it is to stop innocent Americans from being spied on. This would force Cruz to be open to a Paul-written NSA reform bill, because he'd look bad if he did something opposite of his previous justification on this issue. I have yet to hear a single reason from anyone anywhere on these forums why Rubio or Trump would be better than Cruz. I think we can all agree that Cruz is better than Rubio. And Trump certainly would not be as willing to listen to Paul and Cruz would, as Trump completely misses the point on many freedom issues. Normally, I'd be with you guys on only voting for someone who completely understands freedom instead of half understanding it, but there is a time limit on how much time we have to stop the freedom loss in America, which means we have to do what best tweaks the odds in our favor. Ever heard of the law, "evil only has to win once"? If Paul was still in the race, then I'd still vote for him over Cruz, even if Paul had no chance to win, because Paul having more votes would make his message look stronger. A candidate who isn't in the race however, does not have their message look that much weaker from less votes.

GTFO no real Rand supporter is gonna buy that bullshit

 

[nikcers]

I think we libertarians and paleocons should be careful of nitpicky logical elitism on the internet, where people stick a needle in a less relevant part of a topic and then use aggression to give the illusion that they're making a point which is better than what they're actually saying. This style of logic only encourages the elitism culture of the internet, which is the reason why liberals are running to rampant and have a stranglehold on internet and youth political culture.

On the subject of vice presidents, I will say that if Cruz wins the nomination and picks Bush or Rubio as VP, I would feel betrayed so much that I'd consider voting Democrat to protest.

Why did he hire Elliot Abrams to help craft his foreign relations? James Woolsey? General Michael Hayden, former director of the NSA?

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Ron paul came out against cruz... said cruz was bought by goldman sachs... that prerty much disqualifies cruz from ever getting voted in for anything

 

[Brett85]

Kiss my ass. I will never have the bloodshed Cruz would inflict on the world on my hands.

I don't know if you supported Rand, but a Rand Presidency would've led to civilian deaths since he supported air strikes against ISIS. I understand the argument that it violates one's conscience to vote for someone who will be responsible for killing any civilians at all overseas, but to apply that consistently, that would also rule out Rand for consideration for President as well. Rand also voted for sanctions against Iran, and sanctions cause people to die from starvation. I don't see why it's such a stretch to vote for Cruz if we supported Rand despite Rand's positions that will be responsible for killing at least some innocent people overseas.

 

[nikcers]

I don't know if you supported Rand, but a Rand Presidency would've led to civilian deaths since he supported air strikes against ISIS. I understand the argument that it violates one's conscience to vote for someone who will be responsible for killing any civilians at all overseas, but to apply that consistently, that would also rule out Rand for consideration for President as well.

Strawman much? if Rand hired neocons, had voted for neocon spying programs, and cheated in the Iowa election I would be saying no one but Ron.

 

[Brett85]

Strawman much? if Rand hired neocons, had voted for neocon spying programs, and cheated in the Iowa election I would be saying no one but Ron.

He voted for sanctions against Iran and supported air strikes against ISIS. Those are certainly positions that Ron disagreed with, and positions that would lead to civilian deaths overseas.

 

[Makes Interesting Points]

GTFO no real Rand supporter is gonna buy that bullshit

My point on the NSA was that Cruz at least wants the public to think he's totally integral on the NSA, so if Rand Paul started a common sense NSA reform bill that didn't harm security, Cruz would almost be forced to support it, to keep his image as a freedom fighter, regardless of Cruz's motives. Yes, this sucks compared to Paul as president, but it's way more than we can hope for from Rubio or Trump.

Not that an absense of answer would prove my points completely, but does anybody have any reasons why Rubio or Trump would be better than Cruz from a realistic standpoint? I have not heard any yet.

 

[nikcers]

He voted for sanctions against Iran and supported air strikes against ISIS. Those are certainly positions that Ron disagreed with, and positions that would lead to civilian deaths overseas.

How is that worse then spying on 100% of cell phone records, and carpet bombing the middle east? Ron Paul fought against these policies because they are against everything he stands for. Carpet bombing creates more terrorists then it kills, all you get is more "blowback"

 

[Brett85]

How is that worse then spying on 100% of cell phone records, and carpet bombing the middle east? Ron Paul fought against these policies because they are against everything he stands for. Carpet bombing creates more terrorists then it kills, all you get is more "blowback"

It isn't worse. My point was just that if the standard is that no politician should be supported for President who would kill innocent people overseas as a result of his Presidency, Rand doesn't meet that standard either.

 

[nikcers]

It isn't worse. My point was just that if the standard is that no politician should be supported for President who would kill innocent people overseas as a result of his Presidency, Rand doesn't meet that standard either.

NO he doesn't Rand has called to declare war legally, because right now he believes the 2003 AUMF was a bad idea and the previous generation shouldn't send this one into war. Cruz hired the guy who wrote the 2003 AUMF.

 

[Brett85]

NO he doesn't Rand has called to declare war legally, because right now he believes the 2003 AUMF was a bad idea and the previous generation shouldn't send this one into war. Cruz hired the guy who wrote the 2003 AUMF.

We weren't talking about the legality of the war. A legally declared war against ISIS would still lead to civilian deaths overseas.

 

[nikcers]

We weren't talking about the legality of the war. A legally declared war against ISIS would still lead to civilian deaths overseas.

What's that have to say about this, you have to say that he wants us to go to war but he has never called for it, you take his words out of context and use them against him. He was arguing for legal war because at the time there wasn't enough support for it. There is finally now enough support for it, and your guy Cruz hired the guy that drafted the Iraq war, and he worked for the guy who started the Iraq war and the patriot act. This is everything Ron ran against, fake conservatives like yourself should stick to their words. You should wait until Rand drops out and endorses Cruz before you post in here again.

 

[Anti-Neocon]

Why did he hire Elliot Abrams to help craft his foreign relations? James Woolsey? General Michael Hayden, former director of the NSA?

 

[Brett85]

What's that have to say about this, you have to say that he wants us to go to war but he has never called for it, you take his words out of context and use them against him. He was arguing for legal war because at the time there wasn't enough support for it. There is finally now enough support for it, and your guy Cruz hired the guy that drafted the Iraq war, and he worked for the guy who started the Iraq war and the patriot act. This is everything Ron ran against, fake conservatives like yourself should stick to their words. You should wait until Rand drops out and endorses Cruz before you post in here again.

Cruz isn't "my guy." I donated money to Rand and made phone calls for him in Iowa. I would much rather Rand be President than Cruz. But, Cruz's voting record on issues like foreign policy and civil liberties is far better than Rubio's, and Cruz would be better for the cause of liberty than Rubio. Trump is decent on foreign policy but is awful on economics and civil liberties. Overall I think that Cruz is significantly better than the others, even though he doesn't measure up to Rand. I wish Rand would've won, but I see no point of allowing someone like Rubio to win the GOP nomination, who's far worse on the issues we care about.

 

[nikcers]

Cruz isn't "my guy." Overall I think that Cruz is significantly better than the others,

This is the movie you guys like right?

 

[Brett85]

He's not my first choice. I think that Rand would've been a better President than Cruz. His foreign policy is better. But Cruz's foreign policy is better than Rubio's, as he at least opposes some wars like the war in Libya and toppling Assad in Syria, while Rubio supports every single war overseas.