Coulter: Cruz is Not a Natural Born Citizen

[Zippyjuan]

Who does John Jay says qualifies as a "natural born citizen"?

 

[cajuncocoa]

I think Ted Cruz's only real loyalty is to Ted Cruz.

Just as Barack Obama's loyalty was to Barack Obama.

 

[Jan2017]

Who does John Jay says qualifies as a "natural born citizen"?

He did consider himself and General Washington among others.

Delegate James Wilson of Pennsylvania born in Scotland was a Foreigner not eligible to devolve to the Executive,
as was discussed in the convention,
although Washington appointed him as an Associate Justice of the First Supreme Court in 1789.

 

[Zippyjuan]

So we had Washington as US President and John Jay the top Supreme Court Justice when Congress (which included a bunch of other Founding Fathers who had signed the Constitution) passed the Naturalization Act of 1790 which agreed that a person born outside the US to a citizen of this country was considered "natural born". Washington did not veto the legislation and the Supreme Court did not rule it invalid.

Are you suggesting that such was NOT the intention of the Founding Fathers?

 

[Jan2017]

So we had Washington as US President and John Jay the top Supreme Court Justice when Congress (which included a bunch of other Founding Fathers who had signed the Constitution) passed the Naturalization Act of 1790 which agreed that a person born outside the US to a citizen of this country was considered "natural born". Washington did not veto the legislation and the Supreme Court did not rule it invalid.

Are you suggesting that such was NOT the intention of the Founding Fathers?

Washington did not veto an immigration bill that never addressed the President Eligibility Clause of the US Constitution.

But, as I understand, there was some situation that President Washington went to the new Chief Justice to ask about - I don't know what it was.
John Jay refused, telling his friend that the Supreme Court didn't do that - giving constitutionality opinions.
He stated that the only authority the Justices had by the United States Constitution was to rule on cases.

That immigration/naturalization bill is why Cruz thinks the Constitution got changed.

 

[Zippyjuan]

So you don't have any definition of what qualified as "natural born" by either of them while pretending to know what they meant by the term. Nothing in the Naturlization Act of 1790 (one of the first major acts of the new US government) changed anything in the Constitution.

 

[kahless]

Trump live in Iowa just a few minutes ago spent about 5 minutes discussing this. "It is not settled law". He explained how Cruz should handle it to get a judgement and said the Democrats will tie him up in court over this if he is the nominee.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Trump: "Hey- I'm not the one making a big deal out of this!"

 

[CaptainAmerica]

natural born citizen ...I have always thought this meant strictly that the citizen was born ON u.s. soil...to u.s. parents....i mean why else would this be in the constitution unless the founders intended for some british loyalist to run for office?

 

[Peace&Freedom]

So you don't have any definition of what qualified as "natural born" by either of them while pretending to know what they meant by the term. Nothing in the Naturlization Act of 1790 (one of the first major acts of the new US government) changed anything in the Constitution.

And nothing about the 1790 Act definition of citizen REPLACED the Constitutional level criteria behind natural born citizen for Presidential qualifications, it ADDED a statutory definition of naturalization, so there was nothing to "change." If you want the statutory language to replace the Constitutional language, amend the Constitution, but until then, the two remain different.

 

[Jan2017]

So you don't have any definition of what qualified as "natural born" by either of them while pretending to know what they meant by the term. Nothing in the Naturlization Act of 1790 (one of the first major acts of the new US government) changed anything in the Constitution.

The Committee on Spies had defined treason in earlier years fwiw.

Jay's suggestion to "declare expressly a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government"
kinda seems put in effect by using verbatim from that sentence the phrase "natural born Citizen"

Kings in Europe not born in the country they ruled was a situation they would avoid in the new nation.
Washington thanked Jay for the suggestion a couple weeks after it was presented for vote.

 

[erowe1]

Like I said, I don't even know what definition you are proposing, so I can't even have a dog in that fight. If there are all of these definitions floating around from the 1700's then post one. Preferably a proper scan like mine, but something verifiable in any case.

I posted this in post #32 in this thread. These two definitions are the only ones given, and they're very similar. The first one is really just a subset of the second one as I see it.

1. Having a specified position, nationality, etc., by birth; native-born. See naturally born adj. at naturally adv. 11a. Cf. also natural adj. 14a.

1583 Ld. Burghley Execution of Iustice sig. E.iii, D. Sanders a natural borne Subiect but an unnaturall worne priest.
1598 W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies i. xxix. 53/2 The children of Mestiços are of colour and fashion like the naturall borne Countrimen.
1625 in H. L'Estrange Reign King Charles (1655) 21 Divers of the naturall-born subjects of this Kingdome..do..claim precedency of the Peers of this Realm.
1695 Act 7 & 8 Will. III (1696) 478 A Natural born Subject of this Realm..Who shall be willing to Enter and Register himself for the Service of His Majesty.
1709 Act 7 Anne c. 5 §3 The Children of all natural-born Subjects, born out of the Ligeance of her Majesty..shall be deemed..to be natural-born Subjects of this Kingdom.
1776 in T. Jefferson Public Papers 344 All persons who..propose to reside..and who shall subscribe the fundamental laws, shall be considered as residents and entitled to all the rights of persons natural born.
1833 Penny Cycl. I. 338/2 It is not true that every person, born out of the dominion of the crown, is therefore an alien; nor is a person born within them necessarily a natural-born subject.
1866 G. Bancroft Hist. U.S. IX. xxvi. 439 Every one who first saw the light on the American soil was a natural-born citizen.
1910 Encycl. Brit. I. 662/2 A natural-born British woman, having become an alien by marriage, and thereafter being a widow, may be rehabilitated under conditions slightly more favourable than are required for naturalization.
1965 New Statesman 30 Apr. 670/2 He proclaims proudly, in a modulated Birmingham accent that makes him sound like a well-bred Australian: ‘I'm a natural born Brummie.’
2001 Hong Kong Imail (Nexis) 23 July The territory's highest court ruled that only natural-born Hong Kong children were entitled to the right of abode.
(Hide quotations)


2. Having a specified character or constitution from birth. Cf. born adj. 5b.

1835 J. P. Kennedy Horse-shoe Robinson I. xiii. 251 Wat talks like a natural born fool.
1897 M. Kingsley Trav. W. Afr. 137 The chief being a natural-born idiot, came with two of his head men.
1918 W. Cather My Ántonia iv. iii. 359 Ántonia is a natural-born mother. I wish she could marry and raise a family, but I don't know as there's much chance now.
1957 J. Kerouac On Road i. xi. 71 Everybody in America is a natural-born thief.
1994 Gazette (Montreal) 5 Nov. j1/4 The authors..present Trudeau as a natural-born, big ‘L’ Liberal instead of a trendy rich socialist.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

[h=3]Cruz: Trump is terrific and speaks the truth[/h] Ted Cruz Is All Alone
Now that he has fallen out of favor with Donald Trump, the Texas senator is left to fend for himself.

By Jeet Heer
January 7, 2016

“I like Donald Trump. I think he’s terrific, I think he’s brash, I think he speaks the truth,” Cruz told Fox News.


​

 

[specsaregood]

./

 

[nikcers]

“I like Donald Trump. I think he’s terrific, I think he’s brash, I think he speaks the truth,” Cruz told Fox News.

I think the media is starting to get to me even when i read his quotes on the internet its in a Canadian voice It's like my brain is creating this mirror Ted that is so Canadian that he doesn't even realize that he speaks like one. It makes me wonder if he really just does a really bad Texas American accent. Like some sort of satire he could be like the Dave Chapelle skit with the blind white supremacist who doesn't know he is black .

 

[Ender]

hehehe, called that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-ted-cruz-citizenship_5692aaece4b0a2b6fb707f73

Chester A. Arthur already set the precedence. Many questions on his "natural" birthright and whether he was really a US citizen.

 

[RonPaulMall]

And nothing about the 1790 Act definition of citizen REPLACED the Constitutional level criteria behind natural born citizen for Presidential qualifications, it ADDED a statutory definition of naturalization, so there was nothing to "change." If you want the statutory language to replace the Constitutional language, amend the Constitution, but until then, the two remain different.

It can not amend, but when we are looking for original intent, the activities of the 1st Congress are highly useful since since it was comprised in large part by the men who wrote the Constitution. That the 1st Congress drafted a statute in which they referred to people born abroad as "natural born" suggests that they may not have viewed "being born on US soil" as necessary to the definition of "natural born citizen".

 

[notsure]

It can not amend, but when we are looking for original intent, the activities of the 1st Congress are highly useful since since it was comprised in large part by the men who wrote the Constitution. That the 1st Congress drafted a statute in which they referred to people born abroad as "natural born" suggests that they may not have viewed "being born on US soil" as necessary to the definition of "natural born citizen".

The 3rd US Congress (1795) included some of the very same members from the 1st Congress, and attendees of the Constitutional Convention. John Adams was President of the Senate as he was in the 1st Congress and George Washington was still President. So in 1795, when Congress repealed the 1790 Naturalization Act with the 1795 Naturalization Act, and replaced "natural born citizens" with "citizens"; this must show original intent for persons acquiring citizenship by naturalization statute (in this case, particularly children born abroad to US citizens) from ever being considered as natural born citizens.

 

[spudea]

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42097.pdf

Here is a 53 page report from the congressional research service that addresses all the issues raised in this thread with citations, including: John Jay's letter, The Law of Nations, the intent of the framers, and the common understanding of the term natural born citizen in the 18th century.

With this information, it is clear to me that the framers understood the term natural born to include those born abroad to US citizens.

 

[Sandemanian]

Tell me, is John McCain natural-born enough to be eligible for POTUS?

Yes, he was born in a US territory to two US citizen parents. He was not born in a different country, his parents were not foreigners, he never acquired another nationality.Same case as Goldwater who was born in Arizona before it became a state.