Coulter: Cruz is Not a Natural Born Citizen

[Jamesiv1]

I think Ted Cruz's only real loyalty is to Ted Cruz.

I think his only real loyalty is to the guys pulling his strings.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

It doesn't matter if he had 2 or 20 US citizen parents. Because he was born abroad, his only claim to US citizenship is through Congressional statute; through Congress's Acts of Naturalization. These are naturalized citizens, not natural born.

We have a winner. Statutory US citizen status is not the same as the higher, constitutional standard of natural born citizen under original intent. In addition, both parents needed to be American under original intent in order to establish natural born citizen status for the child, not just one. Consistent adherence to the original intent of the constitution is what drives the issue here, just as with all other issues. If we disregard the constitution on issue A, B, and C, what is our basis for complaining when others disregard it on points X, Y and Z?

So, you prefer "common sense" gun control measures, like more background checks? Okay, if it's soooo common sense, and everybody supports it, pass a constitutional amendment so it doesn't violate the infringement clause of the 2nd amendment. You prefer the statutory definition of citizenship to the constitutional one when it comes to Presidential qualifications? Okay, pass a constitutional amendment so it replaces the natural born citizen clause. Until then, you follow what the constitution currently says. See how simple a coherent approach is?

 

[PAF]

Cruz is not eligible:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?438946-Natural-Born-Citizen-Defined

 

[LatinsforPaul]

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And the irony is that the Obama Administration, in order to benefit Hillary, would probably take this up as a matter for legal and court scrutiny, if Cruz were to become the GOP nominee.

 

[hells_unicorn]

And the irony is that the Obama Administration, in order to benefit Hillary, would probably take this up as a matter for legal and court scrutiny, if Cruz were to become the GOP nominee.

If all goes well, Trump will eventually goad Cruz into a brawl before Iowa and it will get ugly enough to sink both of them. I'm still hoping for a Dean vs. Gephardt 2004 showdown to take shape, and it looks like Trump might be hoping to instigate one.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

It doesn't make him a natural born US citizen. He didn't acquire US citizenship at birth. He acquired US citizenship through birth, by Congressional statute. Not all US citizens can transmit US citizenship to their children born abroad. The US citizen parent must meet statutory residency requirements, which are found in Immigration laws under sections titled 'Nationality and Collective Naturalization'.

Ted Cruz was easily afforded the opportunity to acquire US citizenship solely because of Congress's Constitutional authority to establish rules of Naturalization (Article 1. Sec. 8). The very clause allowing these children born abroad to be considered for US citizenship is found in the "Naturalization Acts". Congress could amend or outright restrict the generosity of granting citizenship, if it so chose to; and children born abroad to US citizen parents would have no claim to US citizenship. Where natural born US citizens are not gifted citizenship by Congressional action, and Where Ted Cruz's only acquisition to US citizenship is because of Congressional statute, Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen. Ted Cruz is a naturalized citizen.
i think it's common sense, that the Founders got the first time, that natural born citizens are not naturalized citizens; and are born on US soil.


http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization

Tell me, is John McCain natural-born enough to be eligible for POTUS?

 

[LatinsforPaul]

 

[Zippyjuan]

We have a winner. Statutory US citizen status is not the same as the higher, constitutional standard of natural born citizen under original intent. In addition, both parents needed to be American under original intent in order to establish natural born citizen status for the child, not just one. Consistent adherence to the original intent of the constitution is what drives the issue here, just as with all other issues. If we disregard the constitution on issue A, B, and C, what is our basis for complaining when others disregard it on points X, Y and Z?

So, you prefer "common sense" gun control measures, like more background checks? Okay, if it's soooo common sense, and everybody supports it, pass a constitutional amendment so it doesn't violate the infringement clause of the 2nd amendment. You prefer the statutory definition of citizenship to the constitutional one when it comes to Presidential qualifications? Okay, pass a constitutional amendment so it replaces the natural born citizen clause. Until then, you follow what the constitution currently says. See how simple a coherent approach is?

Can you show us in the Constitution or US Law where that is said?

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Can you show us in the Constitution or US Law where that is said?

It was expressed by the Founders but not in the text, which is why it's called "original intent" of the Constitution. Statements by lower and later law would not represent the original intent, and is thus irrelevant.

 

[erowe1]

Ted Cruz was easily afforded the opportunity to acquire US citizenship solely because of Congress's Constitutional authority to establish rules of Naturalization (Article 1. Sec. 8). The very clause allowing these children born abroad to be considered for US citizenship is found in the "Naturalization Acts". Congress could amend or outright restrict the generosity of granting citizenship, if it so chose to; and children born abroad to US citizen parents would have no claim to US citizenship. Where natural born US citizens are not gifted citizenship by Congressional action, and Where Ted Cruz's only acquisition to US citizenship is because of Congressional statute, Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen. Ted Cruz is a naturalized citizen.

Of course Congress could change the law so that children born abroad would not be US citizens. And if they did, then those children would not be natural born citizens. But as long as the law states that children of US citizens born abroad are themselves US citizens, it follows that those children are natural-born citizens.

 

[erowe1]

Here are the two definitions of "natural-born" given in the Oxford English Dictionary, along with examples. Notice the dates of the examples to see that the first definition was well-established at the time the Constitution was ratified, and so was the natural one to be understood in the phrase "natural born citizen" in the Constitution at that time.

1. Having a specified position, nationality, etc., by birth; native-born. See naturally born adj. at naturally adv. 11a. Cf. also natural adj. 14a.

1583 Ld. Burghley Execution of Iustice sig. E.iii, D. Sanders a natural borne Subiect but an unnaturall worne priest.
1598 W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies i. xxix. 53/2 The children of Mestiços are of colour and fashion like the naturall borne Countrimen.
1625 in H. L'Estrange Reign King Charles (1655) 21 Divers of the naturall-born subjects of this Kingdome..do..claim precedency of the Peers of this Realm.
1695 Act 7 & 8 Will. III (1696) 478 A Natural born Subject of this Realm..Who shall be willing to Enter and Register himself for the Service of His Majesty.
1709 Act 7 Anne c. 5 §3 The Children of all natural-born Subjects, born out of the Ligeance of her Majesty..shall be deemed..to be natural-born Subjects of this Kingdom.
1776 in T. Jefferson Public Papers 344 All persons who..propose to reside..and who shall subscribe the fundamental laws, shall be considered as residents and entitled to all the rights of persons natural born.
1833 Penny Cycl. I. 338/2 It is not true that every person, born out of the dominion of the crown, is therefore an alien; nor is a person born within them necessarily a natural-born subject.
1866 G. Bancroft Hist. U.S. IX. xxvi. 439 Every one who first saw the light on the American soil was a natural-born citizen.
1910 Encycl. Brit. I. 662/2 A natural-born British woman, having become an alien by marriage, and thereafter being a widow, may be rehabilitated under conditions slightly more favourable than are required for naturalization.
1965 New Statesman 30 Apr. 670/2 He proclaims proudly, in a modulated Birmingham accent that makes him sound like a well-bred Australian: ‘I'm a natural born Brummie.’
2001 Hong Kong Imail (Nexis) 23 July The territory's highest court ruled that only natural-born Hong Kong children were entitled to the right of abode.
(Hide quotations)


2. Having a specified character or constitution from birth. Cf. born adj. 5b.

1835 J. P. Kennedy Horse-shoe Robinson I. xiii. 251 Wat talks like a natural born fool.
1897 M. Kingsley Trav. W. Afr. 137 The chief being a natural-born idiot, came with two of his head men.
1918 W. Cather My Ántonia iv. iii. 359 Ántonia is a natural-born mother. I wish she could marry and raise a family, but I don't know as there's much chance now.
1957 J. Kerouac On Road i. xi. 71 Everybody in America is a natural-born thief.
1994 Gazette (Montreal) 5 Nov. j1/4 The authors..present Trudeau as a natural-born, big ‘L’ Liberal instead of a trendy rich socialist.

 

[RonPaulMall]

Tell me, is John McCain natural-born enough to be eligible for POTUS?

McCain is an open and shut case. With Cruz you can at least argue that "born American" and "natural born" are the same thing, but McCain wasn't even born American. The statute that granted people in the Canal Zone birth citizenship wasn't passed until McCain was nearly one year old.

 

[jkr]

the way i see it is this:
duel citizens have duel loyalties and , more importantly, duel OPPORTUNITY...they can run off and hide AFTER they fk up here.

not a good idea

plus the whole possible traitor thing...

oh, by the way, whats up with all but one of our "presidents" being related to the same ENGLISH king???

 

[RonPaulMall]

oh, by the way, whats up with all but one of our "presidents" being related to the same ENGLISH king???

I don't think the methodology of that high school girl that "proved" 42 of 43 President's were related to King John was very sound. My memory is that more reputable scholars found that many President's lines just couldn't be traced back that far. But the principle itself isn't that complicated and you don't have to go back that far before all currently living people of European descent have a common ancestor. A read that you may find interesting:

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/07/charlemagnes-dna-and-our-universal-royalty/

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

 

[Zippyjuan]

It was expressed by the Founders but not in the text, which is why it's called "original intent" of the Constitution. Statements by lower and later law would not represent the original intent, and is thus irrelevant.

So there isn't anything legal which says both parents must be citizens for their child to be a "natural born" citizen. There are two ways to become a citizen- by birth ("natural born") or by naturalization.

IF a US citizen has a child, is that child automatically a citizen? If so, the child is a "natural born" citizen.

Then again, at the time of the founding, citizenship was reserved for "free white persons of good character". Cruz, his father coming from Cuba and his mother a US citizen, would not have been included for racial reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

 

[RDM]

To protect the nation from foreign influence. It is my view he should be ineligible but unfortunately the "intent" of the founders as far as the Constitution has been irrelevant for some time now. They will just look at the fact he has an American mother and end it there.

If this country really maintained the intent of the founders we would be living in an entirely different and freer country than it is now. We would not be having the gun control debate or have witnessed the demographic change - immigration policy debate.

I guess we can be thankful Kim Jong Un doesn't have a American mother.

 

[kahless]

I guess we can be thankful Kim Jong Un doesn't have a American mother.

LOL, but actually I think the establishment types do not fear the race card as much when it comes to Asians as they do with Hispanics or Cubans. I think no one wants to risk the political fallout to themselves in touching Cruz or going against the party apparatus.

Just listen to the media reports, it is all about mocking Trump rather than really addressing it since they are a bunch of cowards. No one wants to address it since they are petrified of the race card or risk the appearance of looking anti-immigrant.

 

[Feelgood]

What was the original intent of the natural born citizen clause? Why is it even there?

So Arnold Schwarzenegger could never be POTUS?

 

[dusman]

Something fun I came up with having gotten into this topic, is that there is currently a person whom is an heir and royalty in a foreign country that would have also been eligible for President based on this non-sense that a single parent being a citizen is sufficient. My argument is that certainly the founders weren't ignorant and there is no reason they would have even provided the restriction of Natural-Born citizen if it didn't have the explicit intent of preventing that very scenario from being possible.

Fun Fact: Prince Albert of Monaco, whose mother was an American citizen, was eligible to be President of the United States according to these people up until he took reign in Monaco.

Does that not sound unusual from the standpoint of why the founders made the restriction in the first place? Second, why wouldn't the crown attempt to do that very thing if the option was available.