Controlled Opposition - A must read for everyone in the liberty movement

[osan]

Again, my post was not about u. I just used your post to make a point. So, I'm not going to go section by section through it, but do wanna pick out one example.

So, you're driving in a car designed, manufactured and distributed by the system, on roads designed and built by the system, with a drivers llicense and vehicle registration to the state gov't run by the system? Doesn't sound too organic to me. Sorry.

Again, not trying to pick on you. But unfortunately, you've kinda volunteered to be the Guinny pig. Just trying to illustrate how immersed our brains are in this tightly controlled world.

Give me an example of exaptation, then you'll get my attention.

We don't live in vacuo. It is, therefore, impossible to escape the influences of others. Short of sticking an ICBM up my ass and shooting myself into deep, dark, cold space, others will have some rub upon me. Your central proposition seems unconnected with anything real.

We are all products of our environments in some ways and measures. That does not perforce mean that we are incapable of self-determination within a given context. It is precisely that a man is free that he can choose whatever he pleases within the envelope of human possibility. I could choose to do things that would get me killed or imprisoned. I choose to do otherwise, not because I am incapable, not because I am unaware, but because I understand the consequences of certain acts and decide that those paths are not for me.

To assert that I am a hopeless prisoner, incapable of altering my circumstance and status just because I buy a car and drive it down the road is absurd.

 

[devil21]

We don't live in vacuo. It is, therefore, impossible to escape the influences of others. Short of sticking an ICBM up my ass and shooting myself into deep, dark, cold space, others will have some rub upon me. Your central proposition seems unconnected with anything real.

That is what the Agent Smith character of the Matrix personifies.

 

[osan]

That is what the Agent Smith character of the Matrix personifies.

Could you elaborate a bit. I'm not very bright.

 

[devil21]

Could you elaborate a bit. I'm not very bright.

The Agent Smith character of the Matrix movies. If you haven't seen the film(s) then the reference won't mean anything to you.

Agent Smith is a representation of everyone else, the products of the system, and how they are attacking, silencing, snitching out, etc those that do not conform to the system. If you've watched the Matrix movies you see that literally anyone can suddenly become an Agent Smith. They are the ones that are impossible to escape, as you referenced.

 

[PursuePeace]

I don't mean to pick on you, or single you out. But I would just like to use this part of what you said to explain something. . I'm going to be a little direct. But, I don't mean anything personal by it. OK?

When u say u don't ask permission, permission to do what? I mean, what do u think you would even think to do that would require permission? The problem is that the bounds of your thinking is so well controlled I highly doubt you have the ability to think of anything that would require permission.

You see, the mechanism of control are focused on controlling/limting the boundary of thought. Such that you would never even think of doing anything that's outside the acceptable limits of control. That's the power of the system. It's invisible, as you can't even see the boundaries. In fact, you don't even know that they are there.

Our brains are institutionalized. This institutionalization causes physical boundaries to be formed in the neural networks of the mind. Hence, if you don't have a neutal net in your brain to perceive something, you simply won't perceive it.

So, you can't even know what you don't know.

We discuss issues based upon the frames created by others. Then we take sides, and argue amongst each other within those frames. It's far deeper than I've seen discussed on these forums, unfortunately.

We follow Ron Paul, because he was handed to us on a silver platter. We discuss the issues he presents because he tells us what they are. He take the same positions he takes on these issues because he gives us the arguments.

We support Tea Party groups because it was given to us as a pre-formed anti-stuff-we-hate group. Only to be lead around by the nose, catalogged, and walked intro a trap where we can be targeted.

When is the last time anyone really had an organic thought that was not based on inputs provided directly by an establishment idol, whether that idol was presented as a pro or anti establishment figure head?

Don't fool yourselves, it's almost impossible not to be a sheep in an environment where almost all of our inputs are controlled from cradle to grave.

No amount of indoctrination or institutionalization of the brain or control from outside forces can stifle the human spirit's progression towards learning the supreme value and absolute necessity of freedom.

Just because we are physically living in a particular environment/society/system doesn't mean our brains aren't out there in the raw wilderness in full survival mode living off of the land. Free as can be.

 

[timosman]

 

[osan]

The Agent Smith character of the Matrix movies. If you haven't seen the film(s) then the reference won't mean anything to you.

Agent Smith is a representation of everyone else, the products of the system, and how they are attacking, silencing, snitching out, etc those that do not conform to the system. If you've watched the Matrix movies you see that literally anyone can suddenly become an Agent Smith. They are the ones that are impossible to escape, as you referenced.

Ah, OK got it. I'm not always too quick on the uptake.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

We don't live in vacuo. It is, therefore, impossible to escape the influences of others. Short of sticking an ICBM up my ass and shooting myself into deep, dark, cold space, others will have some rub upon me. Your central proposition seems unconnected with anything real..

Define "real"

We are all products of our environments in some ways and measures. That does not perforce mean that we are incapable of self-determination within a given context. It is precisely that a man is free that he can choose whatever he pleases within the envelope of human possibility. I could choose to do things that would get me killed or imprisoned. I choose to do otherwise, not because I am incapable, not because I am unaware, but because I understand the consequences of certain acts and decide that those paths are not for me.

To assert that I am a hopeless prisoner, incapable of altering my circumstance and status just because I buy a car and drive it down the road is absurd.

You are a hopeless prisoner because you have yet to do the research necessary to understand how you are controlled. That's crystal clear, and unarguable. I've stated in this forum what to research, but people won't do it.

Let me be clear, you're not making any decisions that are relevant to the system that haven't already been made for you. Yes, this is a bounded set of choices, so it feels like self-determination. But, it is bounded.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

No amount of indoctrination or institutionalization of the brain or control from outside forces can stifle the human spirit's progression towards learning the supreme value and absolute necessity of freedom.

Just because we are physically living in a particular environment/society/system doesn't mean our brains aren't out there in the raw wilderness in full survival mode living off of the land. Free as can be.

I completely and totally agree with this. That's why there is hope. Our brains are the most complex organ in the Universe, and are capable of anything. Yet, we allow scientific methods to limit and constrain our abilities to such an extent, that we can't even see the boundaries, they are invisible.

 

[timosman]

You are a hopeless prisoner because you have yet to do the research necessary to understand how you are controlled. That's crystal clear, and unarguable. I've stated in this forum what to research, but people won't do it.

Why don't you give us a short version?

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Could you elaborate a bit. I'm not very bright.

Do not listen to a damn thing Devil21 says. Nothing.

And please, do not waste any time or energy being misdirected by this Hollywood fantasy called the Matrix Trilogy. Another vector obfuscation meant to derail the public. The only thing worth a damn in that movie series is when Neo picks Baudrillard's "Simulacru & Simulation" book off the shelf when the White Rabbit girl shows up at the door.

Read that Book! Forget about the movie.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Why don't you give us a short version?

My posts in this forum ARE the short version. Read them. They are more relevant today than when I wrote them 10yrs ago.

 

[devil21]

Do not listen to a damn thing Devil21 says. Nothing.

And please, do not waste any time or energy being misdirected by this Hollywood fantasy called the Matrix Trilogy. Another vector obfuscation meant to derail the public. The only thing worth a damn in that movie series is when Neo picks Baudrillard's "Simulacru & Simulation" book off the shelf when the White Rabbit girl shows up at the door.

Read that Book! Forget about the movie.

Funny. You didn't even spell the name of the book correctly. Seems to happen surprisingly often for such a learned character as yourself. Oh well.

I think perhaps you over-complicate, when the situation is really quite simple and does not require reading books written by communist french philosophers that claim the first Gulf War never happened and that 9/11 was brought on by cave dwellers that hated capitalism.

 

[osan]

Define "real"

This is not a metaphysical discussion. Let us keep things practical.

You are a hopeless prisoner because you have yet to do the research necessary to understand how you are controlled. That's crystal clear, and unarguable. I've stated in this forum what to research, but people won't do it.

You are entitled to your beliefs, however mistaken. I've lived at the bottoms of many rabbit holes most likely since before you were born. I don't think you hold any basis in hand for assessing my states of perception.

Let me be clear, you're not making any decisions that are relevant to the system that haven't already been made for you. Yes, this is a bounded set of choices, so it feels like self-determination. But, it is bounded.

Upon what do you base this assertion? I don't think you know the first thing about me. Perhaps you are endowed with ESP-like abilities?

I pick my battles. I defy in the places and in the ways I deem fitting to my interests. I may be an idiot, but I'm no fool.

 

[devil21]

To be clear, I get the gist of what IP is saying regarding the book, at least. Makers of the Matrix movies said that book influenced their movies. Book author said the movies were garbage. Seems not even the readers and writer of the book agree on what it was about lol.

We are at a point where most things are illusion. Instead of actual money, we have mental representations of money, for instance. Stock markets are rigged illusions. Much of what we consider the "economy" is an illusion that was at one time a real construct. The real has been replaced with simulation of real, that mostly only exists in the mind. Now, it's the mental construct of an economy that lives on, not so much an actual economy. I've been saying that for a long time regarding economic issues. The same principle applies to other aspects of life also but I focus on economics and I'm sure IP doesn't follow any of our posts enough to know where our perspectives come from.

Where my interpretation of Agent Smith coincides is that even if one (neo) is aware of the situation, they are still constrained by everyone else that believes the illusion to still be real. Digital credits in a computer as real money, for instance. Everyone else becomes Agent Smith at different points in life. The cashier at the store, the plumber that won't work without a credit card swipe up front, etc.

 

[Ender]

To be clear, I get the gist of what IP is saying regarding the book, at least. Makers of the Matrix movies said that book influenced their movies. Book author said the movies were garbage. Seems not even the readers and writer of the book agree on what it was about lol.

We are at a point where most things are illusion. Instead of actual money, we have mental representations of money, for instance. Stock markets are rigged illusions. Much of what we consider the "economy" is an illusion that was at one time a real construct. The real has been replaced with simulation of real, that mostly only exists in the mind. Now, it's the mental construct of an economy that lives on, not so much an actual economy. I've been saying that for a long time regarding economic issues. The same principle applies to other aspects of life also but I focus on economics and I'm sure IP doesn't follow any of our posts enough to know where our perspectives come from.

Where my interpretation of Agent Smith coincides is that even if one (neo) is aware of the situation, they are still constrained by everyone else that believes the illusion to still be real. Digital credits in a computer as real money, for instance. Everyone else becomes Agent Smith at different points in life. The cashier at the store, the plumber that won't work without a credit card swipe up front, etc.

Yep.

And I consider The Matrix to be one of the most important movies made in the last several decades.