Controlled Opposition - A must read for everyone in the liberty movement

Hey IP!

Nice to have you back man!

Thanks for the nice comment. Not around very much anymore, perhaps just bop-in every few months or so. But always a pleasure stopping by.

I think what you're doing here is much the same mistake many archeologists made when researching the Great Pyramid. They did some math and concluded that the Egyptians were the first to discover the formula Pi. Later researchers found that the Egyptians used a wheel on a stick and a marker on that wheel to measure the foundation of the pyramids. Any time you use a wheel or circumference you automatically incorporate the formula Pi.
Do you see how your responses fit into my analogy? Because say Ed Griffen or the JBS does this or that pratice or technique you assume they are part of the dialectic (great conspiratorial engineers controlling the mind of the population) yet they are only using a wheel.
What Griffin is doing is called "Vector Containment". He isolates the players involved, the timeframe of their involvement and the geophraphy of their activity. It's all about trying to 'reveal' something without revealling "everything". His book is a sham, he is a sham, and the scope of the conspiracy goes far beyond anything that he's ever discussed. He's a lightening rod for disgruntled members of the public, but also a great big dead end that limits ones thinking, exploration and research. He's a freaking criminal, that's what he is. No better than the rest of the mob.

Hello IP. I was wondering if you were still around. I'm not 100% familiar with Griffin's work. I have watched some of his lectures but I haven't read his books. (I've got a long reading list these days). That said, my position is that the creation of the federal reserve is a significant step in something that was started long before that. After all, the federal reserve is only the third bank of the U.S. And manipulations of geopolitics go back before the founding of the U.S. I would be surprised if Griffin doesn't realize and/or say this also.
It's far more extensive than financial controls, and the people and institutions involved are far wider spread than he's ever indicated. See the guy in person if you ever can, and then you'll get a better understanding of just how scripted he is. He's just a front-man.
 
It's far more extensive than financial controls, and the people and institutions involved are far wider spread than he's ever indicated. See the guy in person if you ever can, and then you'll get a better understanding of just how scripted he is. He's just a front-man.

I only have a casual understanding of Griffin's work so I don't know if he's a gate keeper or not. If he blames all on the "bankers" then I would have to agree with you. I am curious as to who you think is at the apex of the pyramid so to speak. Care to share?
 
I only have a casual understanding of Griffin's work so I don't know if he's a gate keeper or not. If he blames all on the "bankers" then I would have to agree with you. I am curious as to who you think is at the apex of the pyramid so to speak. Care to share?

G. Edward Griffin has written on many subjects and blames more than just the bankers and the Federal Reserve. Don't get duped by IP.
 
G. Edward Griffin has written on many subjects and blames more than just the bankers and the Federal Reserve. Don't get duped by IP.

Agreed. Griffin's main theme is the battle of individualism vs. collectivism. He doesn't pin the blame on "bankers", he goes after those who want to introduce collectivism, such as the Fabian Society. Even if Griffin didn't know about or fully reveal who is at the core of the conspiracy, it doesn't matter b/c the fight against collectivism is what needs to be focused on, and that is what he does. The real distraction is digging further into the rabbit whole to find out who the supposed "real" leader(s) of the conspiracy are, to the point of being so distrustful and fearful of one's own shadow that you divide the liberty movement and drive away potential supporters.
 
G. Edward Griffin has written on many subjects and blames more than just the bankers and the Federal Reserve. Don't get duped by IP.

Worry not. I would have to look at Griffin's work myself before I made up my mind. In the meantime I am curious as to IP's opinion where the rabbit hole leads. I certainly have an opinion and use it as a gauge as to whether someone else is intentionally spreading disinformation or is on the mark. It's obvious he is well researched and an intelligent person so he isn't allowed to be written off as an ignorant innocent. So I ask the question......who does he think IS at the top of the pile of shit we call the NWO.
 
The real distraction is digging further into the rabbit whole to find out who the supposed "real" leader(s) of the conspiracy are, to the point of being so distrustful and fearful of one's own shadow that you divide the liberty movement and drive away potential supporters.

That certainly is a hazard but knowing who the enemy is we are fighting against is more important....otherwise people just keep putting them in power again and again and again because they don't know they are the enemy.
 
I can't break through the cognitive dissonance for you, you must do it yourself.

OUCH! Major cop out/evasion. He asked a question - you should answer, if you can.

Think really big picture. Think dialectics.

This is good...

Think about the need to provide a fiat-democracy to society.
I would modify that to "fiat political vision".

When you can start to view the world in these terms, you will find the data points to support your vision. Until then, you won't be able to see it no matter what I or anyone else says.
Tailoring facts to fit the theory? Your statement could be taken that way.
 
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Question To Frank Rep

1. My Father (who fought in WWII) was a member of the John Birch Society. He had many good ideas I agreed with except that he claimed the "Jews were to blame for what was happening, and the holocaust never happened". This statement really turned me off.

Does the John Birch Society teach this? Please explain

2. My local Tea Party group was awesome when they first started, but now they are making a turn to the left, and have been infiltrated by someone I know the Republican Party has used before to sabotage a grass roots organization (The Better Westside Project). An aid of Jeb Bush's told me this man was paid to put a referendum on our City's ballot, and he was not even a resident of our County. He is now a member and big contributor to our local Tea Party.

A trustworthy former City Council member tried to warn our leader, but she rejected the advice...I guess because money talks.

Is that a tactic you are familiar with? Please expound.
 
1. My Father (who fought in WWII) was a member of the John Birch Society. He had many good ideas I agreed with except that he claimed the "Jews were to blame for what was happening, and the holocaust never happened". This statement really turned me off.

The JBS has Jewish members and has never blamed "the Jews" for the world's problems.


eisenberg_sm.jpg


David Eisenberg, John Birch Society National Council


David Eisenberg was born in Detroit, Michigan, in 1926. After his family relocated to southern California, he received his early education in Los Angeles schools. He served in the U.S. Army during the latter stages of World War II.

Dave graduated from Inglewood, California’s Northrop University with a degree in aeronautical engineering in 1948. The specialized training he received enabled him to obtain employment in one of our nation’s up-and-coming industries. Upon graduation, he began a brilliant 40-year career as a project engineer for the Hughes Aircraft Company at a southern California plant and later transferred to its Tucson, Arizona, facility in 1956. He retired in 1988.

In the early 1960s, Dave, who is Jewish, launched a determined personal effort to combat the work of The John Birch Society, having been assured by many that it was anti-Semitic. He carefully examined many of the Society’s materials and eventually met with some members. Upon learning the truth, he became a proud member and has since been a fearless and effective voice against false charges hurled at our organization. Appointed to the JBS Council in 1995, he resides with his wife, Natalie, in Tucson, Arizona.​

================


Jewish members of The John Birch Society clear record of anti-Semitism charge of Society’s President in The New York Times


John Birch Society
25 June 2009


Snippets of John McManus discussing Jewish and Catholic faiths in two speeches nine years ago at a non-Birch function taken out of context​


APPLETON, WIS. — June 26, 2009 — In a June 25 column, The New York Times asserts that John Birch Society President John F. McManus gave anti-Semitic talks to Catholic groups. However, the snippets the reporter lays claim to are cherry-picked from two speeches McManus gave in 2000. “They certainly are taken out of context," says JBS Jewish Member David Eisenberg.

“As a proud Jewish member of the National Council of the John Birch Society,” Eisenberg continued, “I must respond. I have a long time ago satisfied myself that those statements made nine years ago by John McManus have been misinterpreted. John is strictly describing what was happening to the Jewish faith during the birth of the Christian faith back in 70 AD.”

“I, too, fell victim to the smear that JBS was anti-Semitic in the 1960s,” Eisenberg offered. “So, it was my intention, as a proud Jewish man, to use the facts I discovered to destroy this anti-Semitic organization. After reading most of the Society's publications, seeing their movies and hearing their speakers, I asked JBS members who were co-workers if I could attend their meetings. I was welcomed to do so, and I did. After a year of personal investigation, I found that not only was the organization not anti-Semitic and racist, but that I was in agreement with the Society. I joined the organization and my wife did the same a year later. Our two children attended JBS Youth Camps. All four of us became Life Members. I have served as a Chapter Leader, Section Leader, Head of the Speakers' Committee, Youth Camp Counselor and Camp Director. In 1995, I was brought up as a Member of the National Council.”

“So, what are the facts with regard to the John Birch Society and anti-Semitism? Take it from this long-time Jewish member: The John Birch Society is the sworn enemy of all those who hate others on the basis of their skin color, their religious affiliation, or on the basis of any other arbitrary, collectivist categorizations. It is, instead, the most steadfast organization in America working to preserve and defend liberty and freedom for all Americans.”

In a written response, Andy Dlinn, another Jewish JBS member wrote, “There really is nothing here. Based on his speech and my many years of association with John, there is no evidence of any anti-Semitism.”

Dlinn was approached for membership in 1985 because of his involvement in organizations that promote liberty and free markets. He, too, was always told about the Society's purported anti-Semitism. "Although I agreed with the JBS' positions, I was very concerned whether or not the charges were true. So I actually read the early works of JBS founder Robert Welch before he started the JBS looking for clues to validate the charges. Having found none, I joined the JBS and have been a proud defender of freedom enhanced by the comprehensive tools the JBS provides. As Mr. Welch clearly states in his founding speech of the JBS, "Our hope is to make better Catholics, better Protestants, better Jews, or better Moslems out of those who belong to the Society. Our never ending concern is with morality, integrity and purpose."

Dlinn has served as volunteer chapter leader and section leader.

John McManus is available for interviews not only to refute the issue brought up by The New York Times, but to discuss the larger issue of some mainstream media outlets irresponsibly labeling dissent as “right wing extremism” or as “hate speech.”

McManus joined the staff of The John Birch Society in August 1966, becoming President in 1991. He has written and produced numerous books and audiovisual programs, including the popular DVD, “Overview of America,” which is a moving tribute about America’s Constitutional roots.

He has appeared on hundreds of radio and television programs. He is one of the Society’s few authorized spokesmen. In addition to being a regular contributor of articles to The New American magazine, he serves as its publisher. He is also publisher of the Society’s monthly Bulletin. He is currently wrapping up a speaking tour entitled “America’s Economic Meltdown,” in which he points to the Constitution for long-term solutions. His speech is based on his 1993 book “Financial Terrorism: Hijacking America Under the Threat of Bankruptcy.” Many of his predictions made in this book have come true during the current economic crisis.

Founded in 1958 and headquartered in Appleton, Wisconsin, The John Birch Society is dedicated to restoring and preserving freedom under the U.S. Constitution. Members come from all walks of life and are active throughout the 50 states on local, regional and national issues. United by a strong belief in personal freedom and limited government, plus a sense of duty, members have played a continuous and pivotal role in halting legislation and federal policies that threaten the independence of our country and the freedom of American citizens. Visit www.JBS.org for more information.


SOURCE:
http://www.jbs.org/press-room/5042-...e-of-societys-president-in-the-new-york-times
 
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Thank you for clearing that up for me. It has been on my mind for many years.

By the way the 2nd question I asked...We did win, and like you said, not by demonstrations, but by education of the voters and local politicians. We did our research, and documented it too. But I was shocked that not only did they pay a man to put a vote on our City ballot, but a State Judge ruled that he would decide its legality after the vote ( the City government had ruled it illegal to put on our ballot after we had educated them). I received one big education about how powerful and corrupt the Republican Party really is (not to exclude the Democratic Party in that same description) .
 
Agreed. Griffin's main theme is the battle of individualism vs. collectivism. He doesn't pin the blame on "bankers", he goes after those who want to introduce collectivism, such as the Fabian Society. Even if Griffin didn't know about or fully reveal who is at the core of the conspiracy, it doesn't matter b/c the fight against collectivism is what needs to be focused on, and that is what he does. The real distraction is digging further into the rabbit whole to find out who the supposed "real" leader(s) of the conspiracy are, to the point of being so distrustful and fearful of one's own shadow that you divide the liberty movement and drive away potential supporters.

+1000
 
To Frank Rep

Thank you so much for the information. You have been of more help than I can say here.
 
I only have a casual understanding of Griffin's work so I don't know if he's a gate keeper or not. If he blames all on the "bankers" then I would have to agree with you. I am curious as to who you think is at the apex of the pyramid so to speak. Care to share?

It is not about who, it is about a belief system - Ron has mentioned this. There is simply a school of though that teaches that men have to be governed (ie controlled) by other more "educated" men. The more extreme schools of thought characterize everday humans as children, monkeys, beasts, who are to be feared. This school of thought uses any and all mechanism to deceive the common man, and to keep them in their subservient roles.

This school of thought is well documented throughout history, and the teachings are readily available. One just has to invest the time in finding the sources, reading them, and understanding them. It's too bad more don't do this.
 
Worry not. I would have to look at Griffin's work myself before I made up my mind. In the meantime I am curious as to IP's opinion where the rabbit hole leads. I certainly have an opinion and use it as a gauge as to whether someone else is intentionally spreading disinformation or is on the mark. It's obvious he is well researched and an intelligent person so he isn't allowed to be written off as an ignorant innocent. So I ask the question......who does he think IS at the top of the pile of shit we call the NWO.
There is no NWO, that's propaganda.

It's about understanding their system of control, which has been written about by many. One of the primary control mechanisms is to control all sides of every story that is programmed into the public, and to control all of the actors and the distribution mechanisms that distribute said messages. All sides of every issue are cultivated in advance, and designed for specific target audiences given their existing belief systems. Griffen is just another designed character spewing a predesigned message to a particular type of group.

There is no top, there is no pyramid, everyone is trapped by this system because everyone must fill a role, including the beasts at the bottom of the heap, who are here to provide wealth to those that oppress them.

Griffin tells the monetary purists & conspiracy theorist crowds what they want to here, that's all. Same with all of the groups that are supported by so many here. All of this activity is counter individuality, which promotes self discovery and individual beliefs.
 
There is no NWO, that's propaganda.

It's about understanding their system of control, which has been written about by many. One of the primary control mechanisms is to control all sides of every story that is programmed into the public, and to control all of the actors and the distribution mechanisms that distribute said messages. All sides of every issue are cultivated in advance, and designed for specific target audiences given their existing belief systems. Griffen is just another designed character spewing a predesigned message to a particular type of group.

There is no top, there is no pyramid, everyone is trapped by this system because everyone must fill a role, including the beasts at the bottom of the heap, who are here to provide wealth to those that oppress them.

Griffin tells the monetary purists & conspiracy theorist crowds what they want to here, that's all. Same with all of the groups that are supported by so many here. All of this activity is counter individuality, which promotes self discovery and individual beliefs.

NWO isn't propaganda. It's the label that encircles your entire post. People seeking to further control those beneath them. That is the plan of the NWO. Currently there are too many people and nations deciding their own fates (and controlling their own resources) so those "educated elites" must control them too. That is the NWO. It's about bringing a central monetary scheme over everyone in order to control the entire population of the planet and all of her resources.

I don't pay attention to Griffin. I don't follow personalities because they are usually easily corrupted. If he is a puppet then that would make him part of the plan, though not expressly.
 
It is not about who, it is about a belief system - Ron has mentioned this. There is simply a school of though that teaches that men have to be governed (ie controlled) by other more "educated" men. The more extreme schools of thought characterize everday humans as children, monkeys, beasts, who are to be feared. This school of thought uses any and all mechanism to deceive the common man, and to keep them in their subservient roles.

This school of thought is well documented throughout history, and the teachings are readily available. One just has to invest the time in finding the sources, reading them, and understanding them. It's too bad more don't do this.

That's a non-answer. Since a "belief system" and "school of thought" requires real people/organizations to promote and fund it, who might they be? Ideologies are non-existant without real people behind them.
 
Agreed. Griffin's main theme is the battle of individualism vs. collectivism. He doesn't pin the blame on "bankers", he goes after those who want to introduce collectivism, such as the Fabian Society. Even if Griffin didn't know about or fully reveal who is at the core of the conspiracy, it doesn't matter b/c the fight against collectivism is what needs to be focused on, and that is what he does. The real distraction is digging further into the rabbit whole to find out who the supposed "real" leader(s) of the conspiracy are, to the point of being so distrustful and fearful of one's own shadow that you divide the liberty movement and drive away potential supporters.

There's the rub. In practical terms it is perhaps impossible to know the whole truth regarding the global power structure. Because the stakes are perceived as being so high in the minds of many, the issues of truth become important. When things become important enough, perceptions become distorted... maybe... there is no way to know precisely what is what as a gestalt and people either say "fuck it" and ignore dangers or become obsessed with them. The result is either over- or underestimation of powers, evils, goods, what have you. All we can work with is that which we know and perhaps with those extrapolations that seem reasonable, hopefully without misjudging "reasonable". All we can do is our best to separate the wheat from the chaff. I would also contend that knowing it all on "their side of the fence is unnecessary. All we need to make correct decisions is to know what is right for us; to understand liberty and to resist all actions that interfere with it. That part should be relatively easy for people to recognize and therefore act upon.

For example, if a fiat money system is interfering with liberty, who cares who owns it and what their ultimate goals are? Yes, these may be important for other reasons, but from the more immediate aspect of how such an entity trespasses upon freedom and its attendant prosperity, all we need to know is that the money system must be replaced with sound money.

And so we could go down the list of issues that adversely affect freedom and prosperity, removing the causes piecemeal. If we can find bad guys in the doing, great. Try them and air them out. But if we cannot lay our hands on incontrovertible evidence and knowledge of our enemies, obsessing about it will not help anything. Paranoia has its place, to be sure - but just as with anything else, too much will bring harm.

We know more than enough to justify elimination of entities such as the Fed, IRS, and so forth. I believe it is to our benefit to focus on the practical aspects of accomplishing those eliminations, hoping to uncover and eliminate some of the cockroaches in the process, but not depending on doing so for a sense of accomplishment.

The work of securing, cultivating, and protecting liberty is very consuming. There is always someone out there working to take it from you. It is up to all of us to stop them by any means necessary. This truly is a life and death struggle.
 
That's a non-answer. Since a "belief system" and "school of thought" requires real people/organizations to promote and fund it, who might they be? Ideologies are non-existant without real people behind them.

The players change constantly. It's a moving target. Understanding who the players is of little benefit. That fact that there is so much emphasis on "WHO" just shows you how well the programming of obfuscation works, because that is where most are initially lead to, and stay focused on, never really understanding the techniques and the goals.
 
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