Controlled Opposition - A must read for everyone in the liberty movement

[mczerone]

I can prove my case to another who understand IO (Information Operations). It's like trying to demonstrate that a complex superstructure is inherently unstable to someone who has no awareness of engineering models and no desire to do some basic learning about them. If you are unwilling to do at least rudimentary learning on your own than we cannot engage in a conversation because every sentence I use will require an entire separate lesson plan.

I've pointed to research material in this thread. I know that I and others have presented research material on psychological warfare and Information Operations in other threads many times since this forum began. Until you want to invest some time to at least learn the language and understand the basics, then we simply cannot have a conversation.

The proof is in the techniques that are used. As they are subtle, one must learn how to observe them. Until then, you will exist relying on others to tell you who and what to believe.

People were asking to be taught: a process that requires some input of new information. Generally this process is easiest and quickest when a person can communicate the lesson or give a specific resource, rather than some random keyword.

I don't really care about JBS, Ed Griffin, 911Truth, UFOs, Illuminati, or any other "OMG you have to look at who is controlling things behind the scenes" theory: ultimately it boils down to "look how much research I've done on these questionable leads, it must mean something" without any proof or any suggestions on what to do about it.

I'm only interested in living a voluntary life, I don't care what secret clubs do, or what they are planning. As long as they don't use force or fraud, what is the problem with trying to gain power and influence? And to this point, what is the only mechanism for exerting force and fraud with legitimacy? Government. So the only solution? Take away the coveted toy - don't give your consent to Government and the 'secret evil societies' will be forced to dissolve with neither a revenue stream nor a pulpit to focus the power onto the masses.

Please don't expect that people will ever come to the same conclusions that you have, especially if you refuse to teach them. But also, please take your convictions and put them to good use: not to "expose" anything, but as motivation to declare your independence from the only fraudulent organization involved in any conspiracy theory: the government.

 

[Carole]

"In other cases, we started movements that became so noticeable because of the heavy activity of our members, that the Insiders could no longer ignore our efforts and, instead, tried to shut down our campaigns by denigrating them in the media.

"Examples would be the impeachment of President Clinton, the blocking of the North American Union, and the swing of the opinion of the American people against the United Nations. In none of these victories did demonstrations play a role. Demonstrations polarize; they do not educate. They tend to be confrontational, not lending themselves to an atmosphere of friendly intercourse and exchange."

All in all this was a very good article written with a good deal of common sense.

The above second paragraph, however, I would question. Although the impeachment may have embarrassed Clinton, it did nothing to expose his ultimate faulty agenda and was a waste of time and money that reduced the ability of many Americans to take some members of Congress seriously. Clinton seems to have come out the better in that effort.

The denigration of the United Nations must always be a worthy cause even though it is so obvious over the decades what an empty suit it has been and how much damage it has done in so many ways with its agendas. Still, there IS a great deal in that organization that needs to be exposed, things I am sure few Americans know of, nor understand.

The NAU, of course, needs to be exposed for what it truly is, however, and in that I find no fault, but in the past fifteen or so years since its existence has come to light for many, likely first through NAFTA, it appears that very FEW Americans have a clue about it. Where is the progress? I must say that many of us who have been aware of it have gleaned our information completely on our own. What exactly has JBS actually done please? I stand to be corrected if I wrongly suggest that I can see nothing you have done on that front.

With NO sarcasm intended, please enlighten me.

Lastly, over the decades, I think I could have appreciated JBS more had I seen evidence that it had been able to protect its own interests better, and influence the political scene, done more to disqualify before the elections all those poor candidates who have been paraded before the American people and who had nothing resembling a philosophy of liberty, freedom, and adherence to the Constitution.

Forgive me if I seem harsh. Oh, but then I AM angry.

I thank you and JBS for the good things you have accomplished. Obviously, I need to catch up on my reading. Again, it was a very good article with lots of good information.

 

[Carole]

Totally DITTO!!!!! So glad to find someone else who GETS it!!!

There will be two classes of people - the HAVES (elites)and the HAVE NOTS (slaves). We are being regressed daily toward an old European feudal system.

Won't it be fun when we own nothing and must work for our supper?

Thanks for the post.

 

[Carole]

Truly, psychoanalysts have done a whole lot to screw up the world.

I have found that I am much more an individualist, a loner even, and have always felt uncomfortable tyring to accomplish anything useful in a group setting. In fact, I do not like working in a group.

There will be no place for me in the NWO.

 

[Deborah K]

The NAU, of course, needs to be exposed for what it truly is, however, and in that I find no fault, but in the past fifteen or so years since its existence has come to light for many, likely first through NAFTA, it appears that very FEW Americans have a clue about it. Where is the progress? I must say that many of us who have been aware of it have gleaned our information completely on our own. What exactly has JBS actually done please? I stand to be corrected if I wrongly suggest that I can see nothing you have done on that front.

Here is an article from JBS regarding the NAU: http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...-35/1061-eu-us-integration-unattractive-union

In the Oct. 02, 2006 issue of their magazine: The New American, several articles were written on the North American Union. There used to be a pdf file for it but I can't seem to locate it. However, I have that particular issue in front of me.

I would say that JBS has done an excellent job of getting the word out about the NAU over the past few years. I would also say that Dr. Paul seems to support them as well as can be seen here:

http://cspanjunkie.org/?p=849

 

[FrankRep]

Here is an article from JBS regarding the NAU: http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...-35/1061-eu-us-integration-unattractive-union

In the Oct. 02, 2006 issue of their magazine: The New American, several articles were written on the North American Union. There used to be a pdf file for it but I can't seem to locate it. However, I have that particular issue in front of me.

I would say that JBS has done an excellent job of getting the word out about the NAU over the past few years. I would also say that Dr. Paul seems to support them as well as can be seen here:

http://cspanjunkie.org/?p=849

The New American

Merger in the Making: North American Union Edition of The New American, Oct. 15, '07, 48pp

http://www.jbs.org/action/downloads...nion-edition-of-the-new-american-oct/download


From Scribd:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/878151/The-New-American-NAU-Edition

 

[Deborah K]

Did you see this post? Shows that the White House was pushing for Global Government with business leaders in 1972

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=196427

It started well before that: http://www.channelingreality.com/NAU/NAU_Timeline.pdf

page 5 has the timeline

 

[Deborah K]

Thanks FrankRep

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Didn't Griffin, Stang, McIlhany, and Jasper all come out of the early days of JBS?

Yes, and all continue to perpetuate the Communism vs. Capitalism dialectic, which is obviously a false frame, as shown by Norman Dodd, the 1934 Carnegie report and the 1972 White House.

 

[FrankRep]

Yes, and all continue to perpetuate the Communism vs. Capitalism dialectic, which is obviously a false frame, as shown by Norman Dodd, the 1934 Carnegie report and the 1972 White House.

Communism vs. Capitalism dialectic is common knowledge. The people you are attacking have trying to teach the public about this manipulation.

The Capitalist Conspiracy: An Inside view of International Banking Written and narrated by G. Edward Griffin (1960's)

The Capitalist Conspiracy

 

[InterestedParticipant]

It started well before that: http://www.channelingreality.com/NAU/NAU_Timeline.pdf

page 5 has the timeline

Who is Debra K Niwa (the author of this document you link to)?

 

[Deborah K]

The Cold War was biggest manufactured dialectic of the 20th Century, perhaps the largest dialectic ever manufactured. Trillions of dollars were spent on the Cold War, and it affected every living human being during the period.

Someone receives proof that the dialectic is manufactured, and that the the end goal is radically different, which is actually a synthesis of the nations involved in this supposed Cold War. So, what does this person do, this person who receives this information that would change the world, he waits 20 years before he releases it.

Furthermore, this is not just some member of the public who obtains and sits on this information. This is someone who promotes themselves as a journalist... but not just any kind of journalist, a journalist who specializes in reporting stories that cannot be reported elsewhere. In fact, by the time of the interview Griffin had released numerous documentaries, working with other "activist journalists" and "researchers" such as Alan Stang, Bill McIlhany, and William Jasper.

But what's fascinating here is that Griffin's documentary's focused on exposing the Communist threat. So, while he knew from Dodd's interview that the Communist threat was a manufactured and fake dialectic, Griffin was producing documentaries that promoted the dialectic, while simultaneous sitting on Dodd's information.

If people can't see that there is a reason to be concerned here, then they have no hope of ever emerging from the Cave that Plato discussed.

Hind sight is always conveniently 20/20. Griffin has stated that there was no interest in the interview. I find that plausible because even today, with full access to the internet, which he clearly did not have access to in 1982, while I have 'shouted from the rooftops' about global governance, I still can't get my local media or cable news interested enough in exposing the agenda, even though I can provide very thorough and extensive research on the matter. I can't get the sheeple interested either.

I am going to ask you for the third time: provide your source that permitted you to claim that Griffin's public excuse for sitting on the story was "pathetic".

Then explain how it benefits Griffin to release it now. Explain how a man, who lives a relatively humble existance - as compared to the elitists that he is supposedly protecting - is benefiting from all of this. He would have to be a 'useful idiot' to be willing to comply as controlled opposition. Your theory (which is all this is since you have no proof) doesn't add up.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Hind sight is always conveniently 20/20. Griffin has stated that there was no interest in the interview. I find that plausible because even today, with full access to the internet, which he clearly did not have access to in 1982, while I have 'shouted from the rooftops' about global governance, I still can't get my local media or cable news interested enough in exposing the agenda, even though I can provide very thorough and extensive research on the matter. I can't get the sheeple interested either.

I am going to ask you for the third time: provide your source that permitted you to claim that Griffin's public excuse for sitting on the story was "pathetic".

Then explain how it benefits Griffin to release it now. Explain how a man, who lives a relatively humble existance - as compared to the elitists that he is supposedly protecting - is benefiting from all of this. He would have to be a 'useful idiot' to be willing to comply as controlled opposition. Your theory (which is all this is since you have no proof) doesn't add up.

I respectfully request that you no longer communicate with me in this forum, as I find your posts to be diversionary. You've explained your opinion repeatedly but offer no additional substance while asking more questions that are of little marginal value.

 

[Deborah K]

I respectfully request that you no longer communicate with me in this forum, as I find your posts to be diversionary. You've explained your opinion repeatedly but offer no additional substance while asking more questions that are of little marginal value.

Request denied as long as you continue to attempt to derail Griffin's work.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Added to Ignore List.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

People were asking to be taught: a process that requires some input of new information. Generally this process is easiest and quickest when a person can communicate the lesson or give a specific resource, rather than some random keyword.

I don't really care about JBS, Ed Griffin, 911Truth, UFOs, Illuminati, or any other "OMG you have to look at who is controlling things behind the scenes" theory: ultimately it boils down to "look how much research I've done on these questionable leads, it must mean something" without any proof or any suggestions on what to do about it.

I'm only interested in living a voluntary life, I don't care what secret clubs do, or what they are planning. As long as they don't use force or fraud, what is the problem with trying to gain power and influence? And to this point, what is the only mechanism for exerting force and fraud with legitimacy? Government. So the only solution? Take away the coveted toy - don't give your consent to Government and the 'secret evil societies' will be forced to dissolve with neither a revenue stream nor a pulpit to focus the power onto the masses.

Please don't expect that people will ever come to the same conclusions that you have, especially if you refuse to teach them. But also, please take your convictions and put them to good use: not to "expose" anything, but as motivation to declare your independence from the only fraudulent organization involved in any conspiracy theory: the government.

Isn't it ironic that you use the word "teach" while I stress the word "learn." This probably illustrates the problem better than anything, as I find that those who are unwilling to see the Cave, or to exit it, are the same ones who want the World handed to them on a silver platter. I have pointed to material in this thread, I have made statements that can be follow-up, it is now the other party's job to pursue this leads and embark on a path of exploration and learning. One cannot teach you what you have to learn. In fact, no teacher can teach the pupil, all they can do is create an environment where the pupil may learn on their own. Ultimately, this is your responsibility, no one elses.

But what I find most offensive in this thread is that it seems to have attracted those on this forum most unwilling to learn. What I see here are people inside the Cave, with their fingers in their ears as they scream as the top of their lungs, so as to avoid having to absorb anything that might not fit in with their existing view of reality.

The good news is that I see many people in these forums asking reasonable questions, staying objective, researching the appropriate material and growing. In fact, there are many more who are taking this path than who are not. Some inevitably will be left in the Cave as more and more exit. I'll be on the outside with those who wish to join me.

 

[FrankRep]

InterestedParticipant, your repeated attacks and accusations on everyone with no proof leads me to believe you're just a trouble maker.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

InterestedParticipant, your repeated attacks and accusations on everyone with no proof leads me to believe you're just a trouble maker.

Your attempt to make this thread about me or my posts is quite fascinating. But it is not me or my posts that anyone should be concerned about, it is those who have extensive mindshare and abuse their positions to pretend they are one thing when they are in fact another.

Withholding perhaps one of the most important interviews of the 20th Century for 20 years is simply not something anyone with good intentions would do. I think even the most Cave-indoctrinated member of society can see that. I did not do this, Griffin did this, and he apparently did it on his own. I'm not sure why anyone here would excuse such behavior, other than those who also have mal-intentions.

Furthermore, JBS distributes an article that is supposed to assist its membership to understand controlled opposition. However, they do not reveal all of the techniques employed, nor provide the audience with a comprehensive understanding of the field of I.O. Hence, I am left to wonder if the information provided by JBS is useful at all. For example, I wonder who one would discover to be a controlled opposition operative if they were to employ the lessons from the JBS article? Is the information of any value in today's real world of sophistical social psychological techniques developed by some of the brightest minds over the last 100 years.

In general, at best, you are being under served. At worst, you are being deliberately misled. Either way, you will stay in the Cave where you can be controlled and pose not threat. Further, you will attack anyone from outside the Cave who comes to help. That is the psychology. It's a trap, one of your own choosing, and one in which you obviously will never leave.

Read the material I have referenced. The military has many documents explaining military use of I.O. It's all public domain and there for anyone to read. Embark upon a path that will reveal your own chains. It's your choice.

But to accuse someone of trying to cause "trouble" because they have advanced understanding and recommend material that you have never heard of nor read is irresponsible at best, and down right insulting to the many here who are asking intelligent questions and pursuing their own learning and growth, slowly embarking from their lifelong Cave dwelling.

 

[LibertyEagle]

InterestedParticipant, with all due respect, the JBS was writing an article, not a book.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

InterestedParticipant, with all due respect, the JBS was writing an article, not a book.

Point taken.

However, I will counter by suggesting that one ask themselves why has the JBS not fully covered this topic? The JBS has been in existing for 50 years, and they certainly would be able to assemble the resources and knowledge to educate their membership fully on the techniques being employed, as Tavistock and the Frankfurt Schools have been in existing since the early 1900's and these methods have been publicly know since before JBS' founding.

In today's world it is not enough to analyze what you are being told, one must understand what they are not being told and question why that is the case.

So, I ask these question, some of them repetitive.

• Why was Dodd's interview withheld while our politicians were building up the Communist boogie man and the US Military Industrial Complex.
• Why did the JBS documentary crew continue to paint Communism as the boogie man AFTER the Dodd interview?
• Why has JBS not thoroughly address the art & science of disinformation techniques such that it's membership would have the ability to uncover them on their own?

I'm trying to get people to bust out of their bubble. It's not easy, I know this. In fact, it's traumatic for the individual. But these are simple questions, stop rationalizing away the answers and start dealing with what is in front of you.