Confirmed: US citizen among those killed in Gaza flotilla raid

[jbrace]

International Maritime law states.

The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

(a) hospital ships;
(b) small craft used for coastal rescue operations and other medical transports;
(c) vessels granted safe conduct by agreement between the belligerent parties including:... See More
(i) cartel vessels, e.g., vessels designated for and engaged in the transport of prisoners of war;
(ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;

48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:

(a) are innocently employed in their normal role;
(b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and
(c) do not intentionally hamper the movement of combatants and obey orders to stop or move out of the way when required.

http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/52d68d1...7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce?OpenDocument

 

[John Taylor]

Wrong
Israel is at war with Gaza. Hamas is at war with Israel. Not all people that live in Gaza are Hamas.
But all people in Gaza are punished by Israel.

I understand the distinction between people and their government. Israel's government is at war with Gaza's government. Better???

 

[Travlyr]

Who said anything about intentionally? Do you know that the bulldozer driver was trying to bulldoze that girl? I haven't seen any evidence of his mens rea regarding that... the woman knew the risk she was taking, and she could have moved. The bulldozer driver likely assumed that the woman was a reasonable person who would not want to be run over... I don't see any intention there... but feel free to demonstrate it to me.

And he could have stopped.

 

[John Taylor]

International Maritime law states.

The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

(a) hospital ships;
(b) small craft used for coastal rescue operations and other medical transports;
(c) vessels granted safe conduct by agreement between the belligerent parties including:... See More
(i) cartel vessels, e.g., vessels designated for and engaged in the transport of prisoners of war;
(ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;

48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:

(a) are innocently employed in their normal role;
(b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and
(c) do not intentionally hamper the movement of combatants and obey orders to stop or move out of the way when required.

http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/52d68d1...7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce?OpenDocument

Precisely! These ships attempted to break a blockade, and refused to be inspected by either Egyptian or Israeli authorites!

 

[pcosmar]

Actually no. That's why the Germans were able to sink ships in the open Atlantic during WWI which were attempting to run the blockade of the UK.

.

And at the time (and still) attacking ships in international waters is considered an ACT of WAR.

That is what involved us in WWI. The Lusitania.

 

[John Taylor]

And he could have stopped.

Of course, but the fact that they were both equally unyielding does not transform his movement forward into an intentional murder.

 

[jbrace]

Is the blockade recognized by the international body? Why are so many countries condeming Israel for it's blockade and it's treatment of the people in Gaza?

 

[John Taylor]

And at the time (and still) attacking ships in international waters is considered an ACT of WAR.

That is what involved us in WWI. The Lusitania.

Gaza, controlled by Hamas, is AT WAR WITH Israel. Hence, the blockade. The blockade IS an act of war, and is in place BECAUSE ISrael and Gaza ARE at war.

The Lusitania was smuggling munitions to the UK in violation of our neutrality laws.

 

[pcosmar]

Precisely! These ships attempted to break a blockade, and refused to be inspected by either Egyptian or Israeli authorites!

What Egyptian authorities?

Egypt has opened Gaza in response to this.

 

[Travlyr]

Of course, but the fact that they were both equally unyielding does not transform his movement forward into an intentional murder.

I disagree. How about backing over her a second time? Would that constitute intentional in your judgement?

 

[Chieppa1]

Google "Collective Punishment", and In particular the Forth Geneva Convention.
There is much there.

Another violation Israel exercises often.

 

[pcosmar]

r.

The Lusitania was smuggling munitions to the UK in violation of our neutrality laws.

Then why did we go to war,, if it was perfectly OK?
Your logic is not only flawed,,it is non existent.

 

[charrob]

None of this is international maritime law.

In any event, sovereign powers don't answer to international law, as it's unenforceable against a sovereign. It's funny to see you guys bending all over one another to justify using the UN when it suits your purposes...

yes it is.

and, yes, sovereign powers do answer to international maritime law.

 

[John Taylor]

Is the blockade recognized by the international body? Why are so many countries condeming Israel for it's blockade and it's treatment of the people in Gaza?

Blockades don't have to be recognized to be enforceable. They need to be enforceable to exist. They are acts of war, and the blockade here exists because of the state of war existing between Hamas controlled Gaza and Israel and Egypt.

Who gives a fig about what any country says about anything? If you want to bend over and kiss the UN's ass, be my guest, but sovereign countries have no such obligation.

 

[Chieppa1]

Who gives a fig about what any country says about anything? If you want to bend over and kiss the UN's ass, be my guest, but sovereign countries have no such obligation.

But who made Israel a sovereign country? A sovereign country that exists only because of international backing and support and no merit of its own does, I feel, have such an obligation.

 

[John Taylor]

Then why did we go to war,, if it was perfectly OK?
Your logic is not only flawed,,it is non existent.

We went to war because Wilson wanted to "make the world safe for democracy". The Lusitania was a false flag operation, and Wilson knew the ship stood a good chance of being sunk. In fact, the German government explicitly warned the U.S. not to send the Lusitania to England.

 

[John Taylor]

But who made Israel a sovereign country?

The Israelis, when they beat the combined armies of the Arab League under British officers, TransJordan, Syria, Egypt, and Arab volunteers from around the world in 1948.

Truman just recognized the independence they won.

 

[tpreitzel]

Gaza has been at war with Israel since Hamas took control there some years ago. That is why Egypt and Israel have a blockade against it.

Get it now?????

Now, Gaza is at war with Egypt and Israel. Nice little mess this act of war has spawned, eh? Get it now???

The bullies on the block don't like competition, hence the initiation of an act of war. Neither Israel nor Egypt need to blockade Gaza over the alleged flow of "shiploads" of Iranian weapons. Shall we blockade Israel over its nuclear weapons and thereby selectively restrict any item potentially usable as a weapon? Israel has threatened some serious global damage over its "right" to exist. Unfortunately for the world, Israel will be tested eventually. Either way, the world wins (including God's intervention on behalf of Israel's people, not their government). Israel will either wither away and disperse, be transformed from a terrorist state into a peaceful one, or initiate a global conflagration as they've threatened to do,. In the latter case, Israel will cause some damage, but the world must weigh the cost of a nuclear exchange or continually pandering to the state of Israel and its acts of war. If "shiploads" of Iranian weapons are being funneled through Gaza, then a perceived demand is present for those weapons. I wonder why? Who gave birth to the mess in Palestine, Hamas (Mossad invention) or Israel? One thing leads to another. Identify the enemy. Mobilize. Fight the enemy with sufficient bullets to win as quickly as possible, not blockades which harm primarily the innocent. Doesn't the world just love Israel's selective determination of "humanitarian aid"? This tit for tat process leads nowhere good. Get it now???


Unfortunately, neither party, i.e. Israel or its enemies, really want to live with one another so let them take potshots at each other until the inevitable escalation leads to their wholesale destruction.. Unfortunately, the world not entangled in this mess would breath a huge sigh of relief through clouds of radioactive dust. All is fair in hate and war ...

 

[jbrace]

But who made Israel a sovereign country? A sovereign country that exists only because of international backing and support and no merit of its own does, I feel, have such an obligation.

Israel isn't sovereign, correct? Don't they rely on us if they can't to declare war, or make peace treaties. Also we send billions in aid to Israel also. So I guess we did, but if we did that doesn't make Israel a sovereign nation responsible for it's own affairs.

 

[pcosmar]

Blockades don't have to be recognized to be enforceable. They need to be enforceable to exist. They are acts of war, and the blockade here exists because of the state of war existing between Hamas controlled Gaza and Israel and Egypt.

Who gives a fig about what any country says about anything? If you want to bend over and kiss the UN's ass, be my guest, but sovereign countries have no such obligation.

Ah, Good we are getting some where.
So then, Turkey and any other nation with Nationals involved would be perfectly justified in retaliation against Israel. Correct?