CO supreme court disqualifies Trump from ballot [SCOTUS overturns]

I agree.

Let us hold accountable every president who has unlawfully attempted to prevent the transition of power

Let us hold accountable every president who has personally called election officials to corruptly influence their performance of their duties.

Let's start with the accused for whom we have the most evidence and continue from there.

This one (potentially) unlawfully attempted to prevent a stolen election. Whether they used "legal" means to steal the election or not. Note that when we say "legal" here it means that one side or the other better influenced the legal system (made up from a bunch of lawyers from the best Ivy Leagues) to acheive their ends.
 
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"Being represented by a person one disgarees with is a contradiction in terms." -- Michael Malice

"There is no reason whatsoever to be represented by someone you are opposed to. Elections are inherently illegitimate." -- Michael Malice

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The anarchy thing is one of the few disagreements I have with Dave Smith.

I think all that anarchist stuff about elections being illegitimate misses the point. Whoever has the most force in a given area makes the rules and they don't give a crap if you think they're illegitimate.

I've heard Dave say something like "I don't recognize the government's right to rule me". To me it's irrelevant, they have the guns, they don't give a crap if you recognize them. And then I heard Dave say he gets amused when he sees one of those videos where a guy is arguing with a cop, saying the cop has no right to do whatever. And Dave will say it's irrelevant that the guy thinks he has rights because the cop has the gun. I wish I had a chance to point out Dave's hypocrisy on this, he's a smart guy, I think he might start to rethink the anarchy thing. Governments suck but that's all there will ever be as long as force exists. The only option is to try to get a government that spends more of its time protecting rights than violating them.
 
The anarchy thing [...]

Nothing I posted has anything to do with "anarchy" per se.

You do not have to be an "anarchist" of any kind to recognize the bogosity of "democracy" as a form of government.

Whoever has the most force in a given area makes the rules and they don't give a crap if you think they're illegitimate.

Exactly - and they don't "give a crap" about who you vote for, either. That's the point.

Democracy - especially mass democracy on a continent-spanning scale of a third of a billion people - is nothing but an exercise in pud-pulling wankery disguised as will-of-the-people "legitimacy". (And again, one doesn't have to be an "anarchist" of any kind in order to recognize and understand this.)
 
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Yeah, we need to suspend democracy, in the name of democracy. Good idea.
Not suspend, just make it easier for people to decide who to democratically vote for, by removing some of the choices from the ballot.
 
WTF?? Admittedly, I checked out of this thread for a few pages of posts, but is this where we're coming to?

Yes. I personally think Trump's past actions are legally disqualifying. I also accept that with the current composition of scotus, he will almost surely not be disqualified.
 
Nothing I posted has anything to do with "anarchy" per se.

You do not have to be an "anarchist" of any kind to recognize the bogosity of "democracy" as a form of government.

I would argue that democracies/republics while flawed are still objectively the best form of government. If you group the countries of the world by government type I think you'll see a clear trend.

If you disagree what form of government is better?
 
I would argue that democracies/republics while flawed are still objectively the best form of government. If you group the countries of the world by government type I think you'll see a clear trend.

If you disagree what form of government is better?

Democracy is not "a form of government". Democracy is mob rule, with the fig-leaf of "majority vote" applied over the top. Majority vote is not a form of government, and it is not a magic wand for solving all decision problems. Majority vote only makes sense when every vote matters enough that withholding or changing it has a substantial risk of changing the outcome. Even among the 535 members of Congress, majority vote is sufficiently dilute that the votes of many of the members can be simply ignored, e.g. Ron Paul or Thomas Massie. That is because the members form voting coalitions and so the forming of coalitions becomes the overwhelming interest of those who are in Congress, rather than the purported reason for them being in Congress, that is, to cast representative votes on behalf of their constituents. I'm not sure what is the magic number beyond which majority vote is no longer a reasonable decision-making procedure but it's surely less than 1,000, more than 10, probably closer to 100. By the way, I am assuming unlimited stakes, since smaller-stakes can probably be well managed with larger decision-making bodies as a result of the dilution of special interests.

Better than majority-vote is consensus. In Amish communities, each rule which is applied within the community has to be agreed upon by a consensus of the church (which are all males of age who are baptized and members of the church in good standing). Of course, there are people who disagree to some extent with some of the rules, or their exact wording, etc. Nevertheless, formal consensus is eventually reached. The "social dynamics" or "politics" implicit within this procedure are absorbed by the decision-making process itself. That is, consensus is reachable for exactly those rules for which there is enough "peer pressure" to be able to nudge the reluctants to give their vote for the rule. That peer pressure exists is a fact of human existence. But building that in to your decision-making process makes sense, because this forces the various "lobbies" to calculate how they think they are going to push their rules through. Any non-negligible minority who disagrees with that rule, maybe even as few as 15-20%, will be enough to block it, because the peer pressure will not be strong enough. The breakaway group is big enough to simply refuse to change their vote. This makes the making of new rules a procedure that is "no by default", and results in minimal rules and minimal governance.

In short, nearly every "form of government" is fine from the standpoint of liberty, the key is whether those governed actually consent to be governed in that way. The "consent" of the masses that we have in modern America is as much consent as that given by a woman conked out on quaaludes in Bill Cosby's mansion. For American government to actually be consensual, we need a population that is awake and paying attention to what is going on. Government is only non-reprehensible to the extent that it is a servant to the people. This is the central thesis of the Declaration of Independence. In delegating power to the government, the people must remain alert against treachery and tyranny. A wealthy landowner might hire a security company to watch his vast frontier, but he should keep a wary eye on the security company who might try to mount a coup against him and lock him out of his own land and seize the title. And that's precisely what Washington, DC has done to the American public, and worse. We are now slaves on our own plantation, while the mutinous guards we hired to watch the gates and man the fences are sipping iced-tea on the balcony of the mansion, binoculars and rifle in hand in case we attempt to run away.

Once again, democracy is not a form of government. It is just mob rule. BLM rioting really is true democracy. They claim to be that, and they are exactly what they claim to be. Democracy was despised by the ancients and throughout the entire medieval era. It's one of the few points on which Christian and pagan philosophers actually agreed. Things remained this way until the French revolution. That is when the shadowy string-pullers began to conflate "freedom" with "democracy", as they continue to do to this day. Freedom is not mob-rule. Freedom is freedom, and we all have it by right of birth. Mob rule is repugnant and can lead only to slavery because it is the "running bull" mindset. Who wins in the bullfighter's ring? The fighter or the bull? With extremely rare exceptions, the bullfighter always wins. Those who are singing the siren song that "democracy is freedom" want you to become the running-bull, they want you to join the BLM riots and "exercise your freedom". In this way, the bull-fighter transforms you into the bull, then slides a sword right into your beating heart.

Wake up!
 
I would argue that democracies/republics while flawed are still objectively the best form of government.

I would argue that those are two very different things. In one, the rule of law is whatever the preponderance of the mob says it is. The other doesn't fit that description.

A republic is what we used to have. It has been converted to a democracy as a step toward becoming a dictatorship. What's more, that strategy is working. This moves democracy much, much lower on my list, and it wasn't near the top before. Republics haven't budged an inch.

Democracy is a system that legitimizes every knee jerk reaction. Every lynching becomes a legitimate public execution. A representative democracy may also involve a certain amount of voting. But it's still a different animal.

Ancient Athens is an interesting study. Yes, it produced Socrates. It also handed him a cup of hemlock.
 
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I no longer want to change your mind or debate with you. I just no longer want to share a country with you.
 
I no longer want to change your mind or debate with you. I just no longer want to share a country with you.

You misunderstand him. He treats them the same way he treats us. If he ever was a Democrat, it was before Democrat crossed over his line into fascim. Doesn't it show, once in a while?

He's at war with hypocrisy. He's here for the same reason [MENTION=35009]ClaytonB[/MENTION] is--he knows the sole source of the problem is a massive lack of a moral center. And he knows that any solution which isn't about that moral center is no solution at all. It's just more problems. And that's what attracted him to Ron Paul.
 
... the sole source of the problem is a massive lack of a moral center. And he knows that any solution which isn't about that moral center is no solution at all. It's just more problems. And that's what attracted him to Ron Paul.

I approve of this summary... :D
 
I no longer want to change your mind or debate with you. I just no longer want to share a country with you.

If the enforcement of a constitutional amendment from 1868 offends you so, it's pretty clear which of us needs to find a new country.

Maybe you could revitalize the confederacy?
 
The Democratic-Republicans of the nascent United States sure as hell endorsed mob rule in France.

That's one thing the Democratic-Republicans and the Federalists agreed on.

Christian Kings and Church = ENEMY.

I am one who has indeed "woken up", Clayton.
 
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