Charlie Kirk getting destroyed in debates

[Occam's Banana]

I think it's a mix of truth and metaphors, and much like the bible it has some good life lessons:

"“There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West. Some courage and some wisdom, blended in measure. If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”



[derailed.gif]

Too many people are under the impression that "the facts" and "the truth" are (or amount to) the same thing.

But they're not the same thing. They're not even the same kind of thing.

Good fiction can be truthful, but not factual.

Bad journalism can be factual, but not truthful.

 

[TheTexan]

I asked AI:

"Is it legal to have a white affinity dorm?"

"A white affinity dorm is likely illegal, especially for a public university, because it could violate Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits racial discrimination in federally funded institutions, and the federal Fair Housing Act."

I then asked:

"Is it legal to have a black affinity dorm?"

"Yes, it is legal for colleges and universities to offer Black affinity dorms, also known as culture-based housing, as long as they are voluntary and students have the choice to opt-in or live in other housing options."

 

[jmdrake]

Of course. How stupid could he be? It's self evident that "black only dorms" allow anybody.\

I responded to this and then I saw you respond to yourself with:

Via Grok:

Overview

Yes, several U.S. colleges and universities offer affinity housing programs designed to center Black or African American experiences, often described as "Black Affinity Housing" or themed communities. These are typically optional living arrangements (e.g., floors or halls within larger dorms) intended to foster community, cultural celebration, and support for Black students at predominantly white institutions (PWIs). They are framed as voluntary "safe spaces" to address feelings of isolation, microaggressions, or underrepresentation, rather than mandatory segregation.

However, these programs are not strictly "Black only" in a legal or exclusive sense—federal civil rights laws (e.g., Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964) prohibit race-based discrimination in federally funded institutions, so universities explicitly state that the housing is open to any student interested in the theme, regardless of race. In practice, they attract primarily Black students due to the cultural focus, leading critics to label them as de facto segregated or "neo-segregation." Supporters argue they promote retention and wellness without excluding others. These programs have proliferated since the 2010s, often in response to student activism following events like the George Floyd protests.

Examples of Colleges with Such Programs

Below is a table summarizing key examples based on current or recent implementations. All are optional and integrated into broader campus housing.

Institution	Program Name/Description	Key Details	Launch Year
Western Washington University (WWU)	Black Affinity Housing (4th floor of Alma Clark Glass Hall, named for the university's first Black student)	Space for ~40 students; focuses on celebrating Black culture, wellness, and academic support. Open to all committed to the theme.	2021
University of Washington (UW)	Black Affinity Housing (8th floor of Lander Hall)	Accommodates ~125 students; emphasizes Black culture and scholarship. Voluntary opt-in for connection and events.	2024
American University	Roper Hall / Sankofa House	Themed community for exploring Black culture, history, and diaspora; includes group events and peer support. Open to all undergraduates.	2020
Oregon State University	Nia Black Scholar Living-Learning Community	Centers Black and African diaspora experiences; connects to Black Cultural Center for resources and events. Open to students interested in racial identity exploration.	Ongoing (expanded in recent years)
University of California, Santa Cruz (UCSC)	Rosa Parks African American Theme House (RPAATH) / Shabazz House	Student-initiated spaces at Stevenson and Oakes Colleges; focuses on African, Black, and Caribbean (ABC) issues. Supplemental application required; open to any affiliation.	2018 (expanded 2019)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)	Chocolate City (New House dorm)	Self-identified "brotherhood" for students sharing urban/Black cultural backgrounds; voluntary dorm selection. Defended as "positive selection," not exclusionary.	Ongoing (roots in 1970s)
Stanford University	Black House / African American Theme Dorm	Part of broader affinity options; celebrates Black history and community. Consulted by other schools for models.	Ongoing
Cornell University	Akwe:kon Residential Initiative (with Black focus elements)	Includes Black-themed spaces within multicultural housing; promotes cultural dialogue. Open to all.	Ongoing
New York University (NYU)	Proposed Black Student Housing (via Black Violets task force)	Student demand for Black-identifying floors with Black RAs; university in discussions but emphasizes inclusivity. Not yet fully implemented as exclusive.	2020 (petition; partial rollout)

Context and Controversy

• Rationale: Proponents cite research showing higher retention rates for minority students in affinity spaces (e.g., at PWIs where Black students are <10% of enrollment). Events include cultural programming, faculty connections, and wellness support.
• Criticism: Outlets like National Review and Forbes call it "resegregation," arguing it undermines integration goals from Brown v. Board of Education (1954) and fosters division. During a 2023 congressional hearing, Rep. Burgess Owens (R-UT) pressed MIT's president on whether it equates to segregation, highlighting hypocrisy if reversed for white students.
• Prevalence: At least 20+ institutions have similar programs (e.g., University of Pennsylvania's W.E.B. Du Bois House, Cal State LA's 2016 initiative). Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) like Howard or Spelman are inherently Black-focused but admit all races and aren't "dorms" in the same way.
• Legality: As long as non-Black students can apply and aren't rejected based on race, it's permissible (similar to LGBTQ+ or honors housing). No major lawsuits have overturned them yet.

These programs continue to expand, with ongoing debates in student papers and media. If you're asking about a specific region or type (e.g., public vs. private), more details could narrow it down.), more details could narrow it down.

Yeah. That's what I was going to say. It's no more accurate to call these "black only dorms" than it is to call HBCUs "black only colleges and universities."

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I responded to this and then I saw you respond to yourself with:



Yeah. That's what I was going to say. It's no more accurate to call these "black only dorms" than it is to call HBCUs "black only colleges and universities."

If we want to talk about accuracy and reality, they are black only dorms in practice. The "open to anyone" is just a farce to avoid legal troubles. And I did note in the video that Charlie Kirk brought up the term "black affinity housing", so he was aware of the terminology.

Also via Grok:

"Non-Black students (including whites) can apply and are not legally excluded, but the cultural focus, application essays on Black identity/racism, and community commitments deter most.

Programs emphasize inclusivity to comply with Title VI (prohibiting race-based discrimination), but in practice, they function as de facto Black-majority spaces. A 2023 study in the Journal of Diversity in Higher Education interviewed 13 Black residents/alumni from a Black affinity house and described it as a "Black-centered" counter-space with no mention of white peers. Reddit threads and X posts similarly portray these as supportive environments for Black students, with hypothetical white applicants facing social awkwardness or hostility."

 

[jmdrake]

If we want to talk about accuracy and reality, they are black only dorms in practice. The "open to anyone" is just a farce to avoid legal troubles. And I did note in the video that Charlie Kirk brought up the term "black affinity housing", so he was aware of the terminology.

Also via Grok:

"Non-Black students (including whites) can apply and are not legally excluded, but the cultural focus, application essays on Black identity/racism, and community commitments deter most.

Programs emphasize inclusivity to comply with Title VI (prohibiting race-based discrimination), but in practice, they function as de facto Black-majority spaces. A 2023 study in the Journal of Diversity in Higher Education interviewed 13 Black residents/alumni from a Black affinity house and described it as a "Black-centered" counter-space with no mention of white peers. Reddit threads and X posts similarly portray these as supportive environments for Black students, with hypothetical white applicants facing social awkwardness or hostility."

LOL. You know that you just contradicted your own self right? Your false equivalency is false. Just look at the history of HBCUs. The weren't a "farce to avoid legal trouble." They were created for blacks to have a place to for higher education at a time when blacks were legally barred from most colleges and universities. But HBCUs never barred white students! In fact many, like Fisk University in Nashville Tennesse, initially had white presidents and faculty. With the exception of the Nation of Islam, black institutions have NEVER been "exclusively black" even when segregation was legal. So you basically just make up a fake argument out of thin air to fit your narrative once your own AI proved you wrong.

 

[sdsubball23]

Nope. DEI means Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. It comes right out of the Bible. (Acts 6).

What part of Acts 6 speaks of DEI?

As a minority myself, I find DEI unnecessary and not needed. I grew up in the 90s and 2000s and never once were we forced or pressured to accept diversity the way we have been these days. I don't recall us having special training sessions for this back then. Diversity happened naturally and whenever it wanted to without DEI.

IMO, I feel that DEI is a tool used by socialists and communists to try to take down western civilization. There's nothing wrong with diversity, but I feel like there's something wrong with the DEI agenda.

 

[jmdrake]

What part of Acts 6 speaks of DEI?

The Greek widows (that's diversity) complained about not getting enough of the poor fund (that's equity) so they complained to the appostles who set up the office of deacon and all 7 of the first deacons had Greek names (that's inclusion.)

As a minority myself, I find DEI unnecessary and not needed. I grew up in the 90s and 2000s and never once were we forced or pressured to accept diversity the way we have been these days. I don't recall us having special training sessions for this back then. Diversity happened naturally and whenever it wanted to without DEI

That's nice. But if you think your personal experience defines the entire world that's pretty myopic. I gave an example of how United Airlines used a DEI initiative to solve their pilot shortage problem by creating a training pipeline reaching out to untapped talent pools rather than just trying to hire other pilots from other airlines or from overseas.

.

IMO, I feel that DEI is a tool used by socialists and communists to try to take down western civilization. There's nothing with diversity, but I feel like there's something wrong with the DEI agenda.

You know the early Christian church was socialist as well right? A core tenant of Marxism is "from everyone according to his ability to everyone according to his need."

Act 4:32-35

"32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

Now Jesus also talked about stewardship being "each according to his ability" (Matthew 25:15) but that wasn't about personal gain but rather working for the kingdom. There's absolutely nothing wrong with voluntary socialism. The problem comes when it's forced from a barrel of a gun rather than from the workings of the Holy Spirit and/or within loving community. In fact the poor fund mentioned in Act 6 was an outgrowth of the voluntary socialism in Acts 4.

 

[Anti Federalist]

If I was getting brain surgery this is who I would want for a surgeon.

But I guess you'll make up some story about him crashing into a tree.

You'll be happy to know, Trump just hired him.

Dr. Ben Carson Joins Trump Administration in Department of Agriculture Advisory Role

Dr. Ben Carson joined the second Trump administration on Wednesday in an advisory role at the Department of Agriculture.

www.breitbart.com

 

[jmdrake]

You'll be happy to know, Trump just hired him.

Dr. Ben Carson Joins Trump Administration in Department of Agriculture Advisory Role

Dr. Ben Carson joined the second Trump administration on Wednesday in an advisory role at the Department of Agriculture.

www.breitbart.com

Right. I find it VERY ODD that Trump consistently puts people in positions that don't match their actual qualifications. Dr. Carson should have been nominated for surgeon general or HHS and instead he got nominated for HUD in Trump's first term and now Agriculture Advisory Role in Trump's second term? What does brain surgery have to do with agriculture? At the same token RFK JR. should be over the EPA (he was an environmental lawyer). None of this makes sense.

 

[TheTexan]

Right. I find it VERY ODD that Trump consistently puts people in positions that don't match their actual qualifications. Dr. Carson should have been nominated for surgeon general or HHS and instead he got nominated for HUD in Trump's first term and now Agriculture Advisory Role in Trump's second term? What does brain surgery have to do with agriculture? At the same token RFK JR. should be over the EPA (he was an environmental lawyer). None of this makes sense.

Do super qualified neurologists leave sponges in their patients brains.

Hopefully he's better at agriculture than he is brain surgery

 

[Anti Federalist]

Right. I find it VERY ODD that Trump consistently puts people in positions that don't match their actual qualifications. Dr. Carson should have been nominated for surgeon general or HHS and instead he got nominated for HUD in Trump's first term and now Agriculture Advisory Role in Trump's second term? What does brain surgery have to do with agriculture? At the same token RFK JR. should be over the EPA (he was an environmental lawyer). None of this makes sense.

This has been a consistent and repeated complaint of mine WRT Trump.

For all the hype about his supposed business acumen and managerial skills and how he surrounds himself with the best people, he has made some atrocious staff picks in both terms.

Not saying that Carson is an atrocious pick, but I agree, it does seem "out of his wheelhouse", as if Trump has no idea what these people do or are trained in.

 

[TheTexan]

This has been a consistent and repeated complaint of mine WRT Trump.

For the hype about his supposed business acumen and managerial skills and how he surrounds himself with the best people, he has made some atrocious staff picks in both terms.

Not saying that Carson is an atrocious pick, but I agree, it does seem "out of his wheelhouse", as if Trump has no idea what these people do or are trained in.

A lot of his picks have been backstabbing Anti Trumpers

He's either retarded or controlled and I'm not sure which is more likely. Probably both

 

[nikcers]

What does Elon Musk really know about brain surgery- but he has a business that does brain surgery called Neuralink?

Sometimes you just want someone who isn't corrupt as fuck doing these jobs because they don't need specialized expertise to do them.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

LOL. You know that you just contradicted your own self right? Your false equivalency is false. Just look at the history of HBCUs. The weren't a "farce to avoid legal trouble." They were created for blacks to have a place to for higher education at a time when blacks were legally barred from most colleges and universities. But HBCUs never barred white students! In fact many, like Fisk University in Nashville Tennesse, initially had white presidents and faculty. With the exception of the Nation of Islam, black institutions have NEVER been "exclusively black" even when segregation was legal. So you basically just make up a fake argument out of thin air to fit your narrative once your own AI proved you wrong.

I have to ask, are you drinking while you are posting? Many people do, especially in the evening, so it's no big deal.

 

[jmdrake]

I have to ask, are you drinking while you are posting? Many people do, especially in the evening, so it's no big deal.

HBCUs have never barred white people from attending. This has nothing to do with me drinking and everything to do with you arrogantly thinking that your point of refernce is the only one that exists. Here is a historical paper discussing white presidents of HBCUs.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2962918

And more recently and Meharry Medical College in Nashville TN.....

And not just white people in the graduating class, but also on faculty.

When I went to Oakwood College (now Oakwood University), I had a white history teacher, a white art teacher and a white physical science teacher as well as white classmates. Seriously dude you've stepped in it this time and it stinks.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

HBCUs have never barred white people from attending. This has nothing to do with me drinking and everything to do with you arrogantly thinking that your point of refernce is the only one that exists. Here is a historical paper discussing white presidents of HBCUs.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2962918

And more recently and Meharry Medical College in Nashville TN.....

And not just white people in the graduating class, but also on faculty.

When I went to Oakwood College (now Oakwood University), I had a white history teacher, a white art teacher and a white physical science teacher as well as white classmates. Seriously dude you've stepped in it this time and it stinks.

Please quote where I said anything about HBUs.

And have another drink with your imaginary strawman...

 

[jmdrake]

Please quote where I said anything about HBUs.

And have another drink with your imaginary strawman...

You're smarter than you're pretending to be. I am the one that brought up HBCUs as an analogy to the "black affinity dorms." You responded to my analogy with your "that don't make no sense" meme. I'm not saying you brought up HBCUs so you are doing the "straw man."

Here is the point as simply as I can make it. Let's get back to your actual words.

If we want to talk about accuracy and reality, they are black only dorms in practice. The "open to anyone" is just a farce to avoid legal troubles. And I did note in the video that Charlie Kirk brought up the term "black affinity housing", so he was aware of the terminology.

My counter point (not straw man) is that when black people COULD legally bar white people from our spaces, in general we did not bar them. So it's dishonest of you to claim that now "black affinity dorms" don't outright bar white people just for legal reasons. It's not a straw man argument to point out historical facts.

Edit: Here is another analogy, not a "straw man" but an analogy, that might get you to see the truth if you are actually open to it (which I'm beginning to doubt). I used to live in Nashville which has multiple "gay bars" and at least one "lesbian bar." Those bars do not bar (no pun intended) heterosexuals from going in. But I can't imagine a heterosexual male ever going into a gay bar for fear of being seen as gay. Likewise most straight women wouldn't go into a lesbian bar. I have heard of straight women going to gay bars so that they could drink without getting hit on. Compare this to what you learned from "Grok."
Non-Black students (including whites) can apply and are not legally excluded, but the cultural focus, application essays on Black identity/racism, and community commitments deter most.
If 50% of white people fit into the "anti-woke" category I'm pretty sure most, if not all of them, would be put off by the application essay itself. In the news recently there have been two "race focused" towns created in America. Freedom Georgia is a town designed by and built for black people. But they say on their website that their town is open to black people and black allies. In other words white people, (or Asians, or Native Americans or whatever) are welcome as long as they are pro black. From their website:

https://thefreedomgeorgiainitiative.com/

We welcome all allies of BIPOC and corporations that wish to build meaningful relationships with communities of color to connect with us for doing good. If you would like to become a strategic partner or sponsor of our development projects and community events please send us an email at [email protected].
Contrast that with all white town that was recently created under the banner "Return To The Land."

Inside a whites-only community in Arkansas

Inside the Ozark hills in Arkansas, a group called Return to the Land has established a whites-only community. Sky News reports.

www.nbcnews.com

They do NOT allow anyone who's not white under any circumstances. The self-hating racist "Hodge Twins" sent a message to the founder of the "Return To The Land" project saying basically "hey @Aavroll. We know your community is for whites only but can you make an exception for us 2 negros? we're not even full Sub Saharan. we over 40% white."

And the response they got?

"Well God bless the Hodgetwins. But no. You can buy the house next to the community though."

Oh, and both of these communities are 100% legal. (Yes @Anti Federalist. You can move to Arkansas and have your whites only wet dream fulfilled.) So Freedom Georgia allowing "black allies" has nothing to do with being legal. And before you try to deflect from my point, which you cannot refute, by saying "I didn't say anything about Freedom Georgia", I didn't say you did. Again I'm arguing from analogy. Black people, whether required by law or not, do not generally bar other races from our spaces.

 

[Invisible Man]

A lot of his picks have been backstabbing Anti Trumpers

True. But have these picks made his administration better or worse?

One of his biggest selling points in his first term was all his conservative judicial picks, which he only made to satisfy backstabbing anti-Trumpers. If he had it his way, he would have nominated a bunch of leftist judges like his sister.

And then we have the backstabbing anti-Trumpers of DOGE, whom he has since totally repudiated.

If we had the pre-2016 version of Trump that he was before he decided to pander to the right, I'm not sure that would have been better. Granted, I suspect that version might have been less beholden to Israel, so it may have been a mixed bag.

 

[jmdrake]

True. But have these picks made his administration better or worse?

One of his biggest selling points in his first term was all his conservative judicial picks, which he only made to satisfy backstabbing anti-Trumpers. If he had it his way, he would have nominated a bunch of leftist judges like his sister.

And then we have the backstabbing anti-Trumpers of DOGE, whom he has since totally repudiated.

If we had the pre-2016 version of Trump that he was before he decided to pander to the right, I'm not sure that would have been better. Granted, I suspect that version might have been less beholden to Israel, so it may have been a mixed bag.

The pre-2016 version of Donald Trump campaigned for Hillary Clinton in 2008. I don't know what EVERYBODY seems to forget that fact?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bill-clinton-called-donald-trump-ahead-of-republicans-2016-launch/2015/08/05/e2b30bb8-3ae3-11e5-b3ac-8a79bc44e5e2_story.html

 

[Brian4Liberty]

You're smarter than you're pretending to be. I am the one that brought up HBCUs as an analogy to the "black affinity dorms." You responded to my analogy with your "that don't make no sense" meme. I'm not saying you brought up HBCUs so you are doing the "straw man."

Agree. You brought up HBCUs, but it wasn't clear that it was an analogy. It seemed like an attempt to change the subject.

I am not debating HBCUs, so you have been debating yourself on the issue. I know and agree that HBCUs don't ban white people (or other non-blacks) by policy, or in practice. And I have in no way stated or implied that as a gross generalization that black people exclude white people.

But the fact remains that "black affinity housing" is a specific and separate case from your various other situations. The reality is, that in practice, white people are not living in "black affinity housing", no matter what the "official policy" may be.

Grok is not perfect by any means, and it's analysis is often flawed, but it can usually find examples when asked.

Q: Can you find any examples of white people living in black affinity housing.

Grok: No, based on extensive searches across news articles, university websites, academic studies, and discussions on platforms like Reddit, there are no documented examples of a publicly named white student who has lived in a black affinity dorm.