CBO Reports RECORD SURPLUS After Tax Cuts

[juleswin]

In a capitalist society individuals don't "take over oil fields", they buy them voluntarily. It's only when things get "socialized" that property is stolen from the rightful owner.

Buy them from whom? it was discovered after the country had been founded and assuming it was discovered under govt land, how do you make the break now? To be honest with u, I see things like oil and underground water tables as the same, the person who happened to won the land above it did not create, they just discovered and extracted it. So maybe the owners of the land above it can get some finders fee/royalty deal but I just have issues with individuals having outright ownership of such natural resources.

Maybe I will come around to it, just not there yet.

 

[Madison320]

Buy them from whom? it was discovered after the country had been founded and assuming it was discovered under govt land, how do you make the break now? To be honest with u, I see things like oil and underground water tables as the same, the person who happened to won the land above it did not create, they just discovered and extracted it. So maybe the owners of the land above it can get some finders fee/royalty deal but I just have issues with individuals having outright ownership of such natural resources.

Maybe I will come around to it, just not there yet.

First of all I don't think you should assume the starting point is that the government owns all the land. But assuming the government did own all the land probably the best way to convert it to private property would be to auction it off to the highest bidder. If it might contain oil then it would demand a higher price. What's wrong with the owner of the land profiting from oil found on it? Many people besides the owner will benefit. He'll need workers to extract the oil. He'll need buyers for the oil. He'll buy things with his profits. Why is that worse than having the state divide it up (assuming they'd even be able to figure out how to GET the oil!)? How would that be different from a farmer who buys some fertile land and farms it? Should the food that's grown belong to the state also? Why should the farmer profit from the natural resource he owns?

 

[juleswin]

First of all I don't think you should assume the starting point is that the government owns all the land. But assuming the government did own all the land probably the best way to convert it to private property would be to auction it off to the highest bidder. If it might contain oil then it would demand a higher price. What's wrong with the owner of the land profiting from oil found on it? Many people besides the owner will benefit. He'll need workers to extract the oil. He'll need buyers for the oil. He'll buy things with his profits. Why is that worse than having the state divide it up (assuming they'd even be able to figure out how to GET the oil!)? How would that be different from a farmer who buys some fertile land and farms it? Should the food that's grown belong to the state also? Why should the farmer profit from the natural resource he owns?

The problem is that they have all those benefits in the system now. Many more people are benefiting from it than would have benefited if the state did not own the land. Saudi Arabia has a very generous welfare system for its citizens(my dad had stories that would blow your mind), they have workers and lots of them in the oil sector and those billionaires buy loads of stuff with their oil profits. The only way you can convince the people to privatize the oil industry is to convince them that they would benefit more from privatization and that would be a very hard sell.

Another question is, how is it different from a farm. Well, one is extraction(think aquifier) and the other is cultivation(even on the most fertile land). I think the 2 are different and I am OK with one being used to benefit all of society rather than it solely benefiting a private group. This is one area where my position has devolved since I joined the movement.

 

[Zippyjuan]

May budget deficit was $147 billion. Year to date deficit- $532 billion. On track for hitting $1 trillion. MAGA. Go big or go home.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0518.pdf

 

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

 

[AZJoe]

Surplus? It’s just as idiotic as the cheerleaders for Obama’s “surpluses”. The government usually posts a “surplus” each April. Remember, Obama had his April “surpluses” during his term including “the largest surplus in seven years”. Denying reality does not change it.

When the government is running $ Trillion annual deficits and $20 trillion+ debt using government’s fake accounting methods, there is no surplus.

The CBO’s rosy deficit projection for 2018 is $808 billion, and that’s with extremely rosy growth estimates. When all is settled, it could top $1+ trillion – and that’s using government’s phony accounting methods, not GAAP. Any rising interest rates would further compound the budget deficit and debt.

The problem is not cutting taxes. Cutting taxes is good. The problem is the spending. And with the Republicans in charge, They turned out to be just as bad if not worse than the Dems on spending. The only budget reform the Republicans (with the exception of a few including Paul, Massey, Amash), was to increase spending, spending, spending, and increase government.

Trump killed the budget when he signed the Republican's $1.3 trillion spending bonanza bill, increasing military spending, increasing deep state agency spending. In the span of a single day, March 16, 2018, the deficit jumped $73 billion. The debt grew $215 billion in February of this year alone. Trump himself called for even more increased military spending. The deficit is nearly $600 billion just for the first six months of fiscal year 2018.

 

[AZJoe]

North Korea is the only country I know of that doesn't tax income.

Countries without income tax:

• Andorra
• Monaco
• Bermuda
• Cayman Islands
• The Bahamas
• United Arab Emirates
• Oman
• Bahrain
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Kuwait
• Brunei

 

[Madison320]

Many more people are benefiting from it than would have benefited if the state did not own the land. Saudi Arabia has a very generous welfare system for its citizens(my dad had stories that would blow your mind), they have workers and lots of them in the oil sector and those billionaires buy loads of stuff with their oil profits.

How do you know less people would benefit if the oil fields were privately owned? I think it's obvious that more people, even the poorest, would benefit if they were privatized. Whenever you compare 2 similar countries, with similar resources where one is mainly capitalist and one is mainly communist, the capitalist one has much higher standard of living even for its poorer citizens. Look at former west germany vs east germany. Or south korea vs north korea.

 

[juleswin]

How do you know less people would benefit if the oil fields were privately owned? I think it's obvious that more people, even the poorest, would benefit if they were privatized. Whenever you compare 2 similar countries, with similar resources where one is mainly capitalist and one is mainly communist, the capitalist one has much higher standard of living even for its poorer citizens. Look at former west germany vs east germany. Or south korea vs north korea. [Or Haiti and Dominican republic?]

Lol, I have seen those comparisons before and its never compares like countries to like countries. Take for example East and Western Germany. One country experienced the US sponsored Marshal plan and the other did not. One side's industry was looted by the thieving Soviets and the other was not. So yea, I see how the 2 countries ended up with totally different economic results. That is because many other factors other than the economic system a country adopted played a role in their economic success. I bet you $10000 had we switched everything but the economic system, Eastern Germany would have ended up being more prosperous than Western Germany.

Do even need to talk how N and S Korea cannot be compared to each other? sanctions, economic aid, threat of invasion, trade policies and good foreign relations with more successful countries play a much bigger role in determining the economic success of a country than their economic system. Stop listening to the people making these silly comparisons, they are frauds.

But with Saudi Arabia, your biggest obstacle will be in convincing them that they would receive the same or greater benefits from merely holding citizenship of the country if the oil fields were privatized. I am a capitalist through and through and you cannot convince me that would happen. You know why? cos if I owned those fields I wouldn't be giving my money out to complete strangers, I would give out some charity but that would be a very small portion of what I make and most if not all the recipients would need to do something for that charity money.

 

[juleswin]

Surplus? It’s just as idiotic as the cheerleaders for Obama’s “surpluses”. The government usually posts a “surplus” each April. Remember, Obama had his April “surpluses” during his term including “the largest surplus in seven years”. Denying reality does not change it.

When the government is running $ Trillion annual deficits and $20 trillion+ debt using government’s fake accounting methods, there is no surplus.

The CBO’s rosy deficit projection for 2018 is $808 billion, and that’s with extremely rosy growth estimates. When all is settled, it could top $1+ trillion – and that’s using government’s phony accounting methods, not GAAP. Any rising interest rates would further compound the budget deficit and debt.

The problem is not cutting taxes. Cutting taxes is good. The problem is the spending. And with the Republicans in charge, They turned out to be just as bad if not worse than the Dems on spending. The only budget reform the Republicans (with the exception of a few including Paul, Massey, Amash), was to increase spending, spending, spending, and increase government.

Trump killed the budget when he signed the Republican's $1.3 trillion spending bonanza bill, increasing military spending, increasing deep state agency spending. In the span of a single day, March 16, 2018, the deficit jumped $73 billion. The debt grew $215 billion in February of this year alone. Trump himself called for even more increased military spending. The deficit is nearly $600 billion just for the first six months of fiscal year 2018.

This is what happens when people think you can increase govt revenue by cutting taxes. If that was the case, everybody would do that. I think we are about or near the most efficient tax rates to govt revenue and lower the rate at that point and govt revenue will decline.

 

[dannno]

My federal tax went up almost three grand ... but then my AGI went up 11 grand, which accounts for some of it. Overall, my federal tax rate increased by 0.4%

Did you calculate what your taxes would have been the previous year with the 11 grand AGI increase?

 

[nbhadja]

In terms of messaging, current GOP team doesn't seem to capitalize on such things as Dems did.

What happeened, Isreal-Palestine conflict fallout balooned military spending and killed debt free projections?

Today Debt is how many $Trillions?

Don't you ever get tired of being a INCORRECT brainwashed liberal?

Clinton did not balance the budget. It is a lie. Federal gov accounting standards laughably leave out long term debt. Clinton merely raided money that was meant for social security and used it to pay the short term debt. He transferred the debt from long term to short term and since FASB (the accounting standards the fed gov uses) doesn't account for long term debt Clinton lied and said he balanced the budget. He is a lying rapist after all. The real government debt including unfunded long term liability is much higher than the 10 trillion dollar total that is reported.

 

[nbhadja]

Taking yours to the extreme we should give all the money we have to the already rich and everybody will be better off. When the top one percent have all of the money and the rest none, the standard of living will be amazing.

Yes, I know! We should copy Venezuela and the USSR and embrace socialism/communism! It is such a great system! Thank you for your amazingly smart liberal intellect! MAVA (Make America Venezuela Again). Zippy approves of turning the USA into a Venezuela like socialist hell hole!!!

 

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

 

[AZJoe]

I think we are about or near the most efficient tax [theft] rates to govt mafia revenue

Fixed it.
Taxation is Theft!