Cantor, Brat, and the immigration issue....

[Matt Collins]

I am glad Cantor got the boot, he needed it.

But I wish it had been over an issue other than illegal immigration.


Thoughts?

 

[Natural Citizen]

I am glad Cantor got the boot, he needed it.

But I wish it had been over an issue other than illegal immigration.


Thoughts?

Well. I don't know. You think we'll begin to see anti-immigration reform spew? Junior has some thinking to do, I suppose.

 

[BamaAla]

Looks like he distinguished himself on a plethora of issues.

 

[thoughtomator]

Illegal "immigration" - and I would contest that the word immigration is appropriate here - is a basic Rule of Law issue. It is one thing to argue that the laws should be changed; it is quite another to discard entirely the idea of it, along with ideas like national sovereignty and self-governance.

What has been happening in the mass movement of people from Central America in particular is not immigration, but colonization. Immigration implies an intent to assimilate, and that intent is not present.

Ron Paul noted that while open borders may be the ideal, it is not possible in practice as long as the US maintains a welfare state.

If you are for open borders while a welfare state is in place, you are not helping the cause of liberty. The welfare incentives must go first, then we can open borders. And when that time comes, and we do open borders, we will get a very different kind of immigrant with a completely different set of expectations than the people who are arriving today.

 

[Origanalist]

Illegal "immigration" - and I would contest that the word immigration is appropriate here - is a basic Rule of Law issue. It is one thing to argue that the laws should be changed; it is quite another to discard entirely the idea of it, along with ideas like national sovereignty and self-governance.

What has been happening in the mass movement of people from Central America in particular is not immigration, but colonization. Immigration implies an intent to assimilate, and that intent is not present.

Ron Paul noted that while open borders may be the ideal, it is not possible in practice as long as the US maintains a welfare state.

If you are for open borders while a welfare state is in place, you are not helping the cause of liberty. The welfare incentives must go first, then we can open borders. And when that time comes, and we do open borders, we will get a very different kind of immigrant with a completely different set of expectations than the people who are arriving today.

+ rep

 

[green73]

Ooooo, looks like some factions and their assorted hacks aren't happy...

 

[William R]

I am glad Cantor got the boot, he needed it.

But I wish it had been over an issue other than illegal immigration.


Thoughts?

You're out of touch just like Rand.

Black youth unemployment is 30 percent. Hispanic is over 20 percent, but Rand wants to import millions of new unskilled uneducated people so big business and big agriculture can have cheap labor.

Immigration will doom Rand. He's out of touch with working class people.

 

[green73]

 

[Matt Collins]

You're out of touch just like Rand.

Don't put words in my mouth, I haven't made a position on it


But illegal immigration can be a divisive issue among the liberty / conservative crowd.

Some people think that it is a form of trespassing and breaking of the rule of law.

Other people think that the government should not be able to regulate the supply curves of labor.


I agree with both positions.

 

[Carlybee]

We have thousands of illegal immigrant criminals streaming into Texas every week if not every day. ICE is effectively doing nothing. My son has a Friend from Belgium who lived and worked here for 10 years and got a PH.d from Rice. Because she was considered overqualified for the job she had, immigration would not renew her visa and she had to leave the country. That was going through the legal channels. Who deserves to stay more? Meanwhile crime here is off the chart and our city is being filled with Latino gangs and cartel members and some want to give them a stay in the country free card. Maybe if it's not affecting where you live you are out touch.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Brat proved that a politician does not have to kiss the ass of the US Chamber of Commerce, Mark Zuckerberg or racist progressives.

 

[Valli6]

Cantor also defends NSA data collecting, while Brat calls it a violation of the 4th ammendment.
…another vote for Amash's amendment.

Eric Cantor's loss is bad news for the NSA

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/10/5798554/eric-cantors-loss-is-bad-news-for-the-nsa

 

[thoughtomator]

But illegal immigration can be a divisive issue among the liberty / conservative crowd.

It shouldn't be. Without the Rule of Law we are in a Hobbesian state of nature where there are no rights you cannot guarantee yourself by force.

Speaking of Hobbes, I strongly recommend reading Leviathan as one of the most significant works of libertarian literature ever created, and one that has deeply informed me of the foundation upon which liberty rests.

No Rule of Law = no liberty. In this, opposing illegal immigration is a vital interest of all libertarians - even if they support open borders in principle.

 

[Southron]

Although it looks like immigration wasn't the only issue, working class voters do care about immigration and so does the GOP base.

 

[Matt Collins]

It shouldn't be. Without the Rule of Law we are in a Hobbesian state of nature where there are no rights you cannot guarantee yourself by force.

Speaking of Hobbes, I strongly recommend reading Leviathan as one of the most significant works of libertarian literature ever created, and one that has deeply informed me of the foundation upon which liberty rests.

No Rule of Law = no liberty. In this, opposing illegal immigration is a vital interest of all libertarians - even if they support open borders in principle.

But should bad laws be obeyed?

(and no I am not saying immigration enforcement is a bad law; I am personally split on the issue)

 

[William R]

Don't put words in my mouth, I haven't made a position on it


But illegal immigration can be a divisive issue among the liberty / conservative crowd.

Some people think that it is a form of trespassing and breaking of the rule of law.

Other people think that the government should not be able to regulate the supply curves of labor.


I agree with both positions.

Only FAUX liberty people think it is a divisive issue. The idea we let millions cross the border and start giving them access to my wallet flies in the face of reason. We have a huge income transfer mechanism in place in this country and only blithering idiots think open borders are a liberty issue.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Brat proved that a politician does not have to kiss the ass of the US Chamber of Commerce, Mark Zuckerberg or racist progressives.

Heh. I was going to bring up Zuckerberg and that brood but decided not.

 

[Vanguard101]

-Slash all benefits to illegals
-end war on drugs
-Easier path to citizenship
-Punish adults who are already here illegally

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Illegal "immigration" - and I would contest that the word immigration is appropriate here - is a basic Rule of Law issue. It is one thing to argue that the laws should be changed; it is quite another to discard entirely the idea of it, along with ideas like national sovereignty and self-governance.

What has been happening in the mass movement of people from Central America in particular is not immigration, but colonization. Immigration implies an intent to assimilate, and that intent is not present.

Ron Paul noted that while open borders may be the ideal, it is not possible in practice as long as the US maintains a welfare state.

If you are for open borders while a welfare state is in place, you are not helping the cause of liberty. The welfare incentives must go first, then we can open borders. And when that time comes, and we do open borders, we will get a very different kind of immigrant with a completely different set of expectations than the people who are arriving today.

Ron Paul also noted that the same borders that can keep people out, can keep people in.

Be careful not to let the media tell you what people think. The media has a tendency to lie. But, I cannot tell you why they lie on a particular subject.

 

[thoughtomator]

But should bad laws be obeyed?

Bad laws should be changed - the existence of bad laws does not imply that the Rule of Law itself is also bad. Illegal immigration - and official government acceptance and even encouragement thereof - strikes not against a bad law, but the very concept of being ruled by laws rather than men.

It is one thing for citizens to defy laws, quite another when the government itself does it. The latter case is called despotism.