Can recovering liberals tell a recovering neocon what was greatest struggle to overcome

[flybeech]

As a neocon in 99% complete recovery mode, I had to rethink years of deeply entrenched ideology to become a Ron Paul supporter, particularly on foreign policy.

Can recovering liberals for Ron Paul tell me what was your greatest struggle in your Ron Paul conversion?

 

[Cody1]

Thinking back before I realized my true politically and socioeconomic beliefs I was fairly middle left. From my own personal experiences and experiences talking with other liberal people I think the greatest wall is the skepticism that the US government is really corrupt as it is. Basically what I'm trying to say is everyone understands the corrupt system but to the degree at which is arguable. The intentions are good and most of these individuals really do want a better society but the elephant in the room is that our trusted government officials abuse the system that is meant to help the people. Things are so out of whack right now it really takes a lot of critical thinking skills to break through the iron veil and see what a truly free society can be. Most individuals I've come across have a cookie cutter mentality when it comes to fixing problems in our government instead of accepting the true roll of government in the American society.All in all, being moderate left it took me about 6 months to fully warm up to Ron. Foreign policy for me was never an issue, it's always seemed to be a policy of common sense and respect. I like that.

 

[brandon]

I was never a hardcore liberal. But I did generally hate all Republicans because of Bush and identify with leftist causes. I live in a liberal area and most of the people I've grown up with are strongly liberal. I voted for the Democrats in the 2006 midterm because I thought they would stop the wars. I believed social welfare programs were good things that we needed more of. I thought labor needed to be regulated more (no child labor, increase minimum wage, etc). I thought corporations were evil.

I always had libertarian leanings but I never knew much about economics and really politics in general until I found Ron Paul in 2007. I had no problem relating to his "end the wars, restore civil liberties, end the drug war" message. But I didn't like that he was anti- abortion. The first time I heard him say end the department of education I was really taken back. "Why would someone want to end education?" is what I thought. But really it just made me curious to learn why he thought the way he did. I never had a strong reason for believing in the liberal things I believed in, so it wasn't too hard for me to come around to Ron Paul's side.

The hardest part to this day is trying to explain how and why I changed my views so drastically to the people I grew up with who are still liberals.

 

[StilesBC]

I think it was coming to the realization that power corrupts. It wasn't always the fault of the people in charge that was leading to their failures. It was the incentives within the top-down institutional structure that made their failures inevitable.

Also a big one was understanding that value is subjective to the individual. So any planning schemes that sought to help "the greater good" were doomed to failure, because every person had their own idea of what was "good" or "best." Someone would always end up being discriminated against. So ultimately, the best way to ensure that as many people can achieve as much of what they want is to allow them to do as much on their own as possible.

 

[brandon]

Also a big one was understanding that value is subjective to the individual.

This was a huge one for me too. Ron Paul also wrote that this has influenced him more than just about anything.

 

[Cody1]

This was a huge one for me too. Ron Paul also wrote that this has influenced him more than just about anything.

That about sums it up lol. Purely subjective. Funny that as a society we get grilled on American exceptionalism even though the cornerstone of our current society seems to be all about collectivism.

 

[Chrysamere]

I'm a recovering socialist, strangely enough I didn't have much difficulty accepting Ron Pauls economic views after some reading. I still have some difficulty with his views on abortion, but not so much that it would change my mind about Ron, with everything thats going on right now it's really not important enough to dwell on.

 

[jeremiahj13]

The hardest part as a neo-con was the morale issues of government creating laws to restrict the people. I believe God prefers people not to use drugs, so it was a bit hard stepping down to say government should not regulate moral behaviors. The war issue was easily overcome because I joined the military and realized war is hell, though I have not been deployed yet.

 

[Okie RP fan]

To be honest, all of the liberals and progressives I know and have spoken with, like Dr. Paul in some areas, but believe he is a "nut." Their criticisms are very similar to the average insults on Dr. Paul.

But, that's from my experience.

 

[muh_roads]

As a liberal, I was initially taken back by things Paul would say. But because I have an inquisitive mind like he does, I would research what he said and I soon realized 99% of it was what I've wanted my whole life. In essence, I think I was always a libertarian and didn't know it.

The problem with many people unfortunately is that they don't have an inquisitive mind to do their own research. I find this silly because youtube and message board forums make researching quite easy.

I was always on Paul's side in regards to foreign policy, so that made my conversion somewhat easy when it came to understanding his anti-government views. I quickly realized both parties are not on my side. The first time I had this thought is when the democrats took back the house and senate in 2006. They campaigned on trying to stop the war, but instead they did nothing about it.

Cheers flybeech and welcome aboard. Was it your children that helped with your awakening? The youth that stays detached from the MSM and reads the internet instead is quite intelligent these days. It really is amazing and refreshing.

 

[matt0611]

I was a liberal before I was a neo-con.

I went from big government liberal -> big government conservative -> constitutional conservative / libertarian -> voluntarist

over about 10 years.

The two biggest obstacles from going from big government to liberal was for me to realize that everything the government does is not good or righteous just because they are elected by the people and also believing and trusting those people to take care of us through social welfare. Believing that welfare is good because it helps people and that we need it and if you don't believe that you are cruel.

 

[andrewjs18]

living in the real world helped reform my ideals. growing up attending public school, we were taught that the democrats supported the poor (which we know is false), so I was a big welfarist. Then as time moved on, I became a giant neocon and was steadily watching fox news and supported all of the wars in the Middle East. After a while, I realized that it was morally wrong to be bombing and killing innocent people, so I became a libertarian. now, I consider myself an anarcho-capitalist.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Here's the thing - most "neocons" are not really neocons. They are just conservatives (social conservatives, former old right members, some fiscal conservatives) who identify with the GOP and have been suckered into supporting the neocons who have taken over the GOP agenda.

I always deal with Republicans in the following way when it comes to foreign policy - A Republican is a person who thinks that the federal government is too incompetent to run Amtrak but can run Afghanistan and the middle east.

When you expose the fallacy of that argument, they should understand how ridiculous it is.

 

[nobody's_hero]

I know this thread is for recovering liberals but I would like to say that as a former neocon it was actually Bush himself who helped push me over the edge to support Ron Paul. I didn't know that our foreign policy had changed so much in 8 years, that Bush himself was campaigning in 2000 on "no nation building, humble foreign policy." I couldn't believe it, but thank God for youtube. I started reading up on what the founders intended our foreign policy to be, and I was sold on Ron Paul. Also, Bush did the whole bailout thing and that really opened my eyes.

Are any of you former/recovering liberals here because Obama did something that really turned you off?

 

[Brett85]

The hardest part as a neo-con was the morale issues of government creating laws to restrict the people. I believe God prefers people not to use drugs, so it was a bit hard stepping down to say government should not regulate moral behaviors. The war issue was easily overcome because I joined the military and realized war is hell, though I have not been deployed yet.

I still think that immoral behaviors should be regulated, just not banned.

 

[Miss Annie]

I still think that immoral behaviors should be regulated, just not banned.

This was my deal too. When I first started looking at Ron Paul and realizing that he was the only one who could get us out of this mess, I did a little shudder at his legalization policies. But I also knew that I really needed to give it some serious thought. What I came up with was this,... God gives us a set of instructions to live by, however, it is our choice to do so. If we sin, he does not come down and smash us.... he turns us over to the consequences of our own actions. Even if the government does not police bad habits, there will still be consequences for those actions - even if it's not jail time.

 

[affa]

i don't know that i was ever 'liberal' but i think a lot of conservatives would mistake me for one. i don't buy into the left/right paradigm; i am anti-war, vegan, can't stand the war on drugs (even though I don't do them), am atheistic, and have long argued our political system is beyond corrupt. I believe a two party system is destined to fail, that both parties collude, and believe democracy is 'tyranny of the majority'.

But by the same token, I can't stand liberals. I can't stand when people try to legislate morality - be it a primarily religious movement as with prohibition, or the war on drugs, or a 'leftist' one like the war on smoking. I don't understand how anyone can talk about government corruption with half a breath, and then want them in control of more things with the other half.

I'm not libertarian -- I still have reservations regarding pure capitalism that have not been put to rest, though I agree that our federal government is not the solution. However, I can understand the libertarian position, and the end goal is fairly equivalent to mine -- just a slight difference in how to get there.

So... for me, the hardest thing to come around to was the fact that I agreed with a politician. I was so completely distrustful, and it took quite a bit to convince me he's the real deal (though he certainly sounded it from the get go). By comparison, I never believed Obama for a second, and am on record warning my family and friends that voted for him that he would not end the wars, or keep any of his promises. They thought I was crazy then; they think I was prophetic now.

And that's important -- Obama has really, really, pissed off a lot of the left that believed in him. That thought he'd end the wars. End Guantanamo, etc.

 

[Xenophage]

I have a slightly different conversion story. I was never a neo-con or a liberal. I've been a libertarian all my life, actually. My dad is a libertarian and I got a thorough dosage of argument and education throughout my childhood. I was the kid who raised his hand in class to argue with the teacher about moral issues of government (yes, I was odd!). I remember in 7th grade arguing against affirmative action in a social studies class on the moral basis of property rights. I remember arguing in 9th grade against helmet laws. Hell, I remember in 5th grade arguing with a teacher in front of my entire class that roads could be privatized. "Why couldn't a company do that?" I asked innocently. (You know what she said? Jamestown proves that companies can't do everything! I wish I'd known what Jamestown was, because I could have trounced her.) Almost all of my teachers hated my guts and I never got good grades. I was always reading something by Robert Heinlein or Ayn Rand.

Anyway, flash forward to my mid-20's. My dad tells me about Ron Paul, but I had no idea who he was. I read some things on the internet about him and decided I DIDN'T LIKE HIM! Imagine that!

My biggest hang up was on foreign policy. The principles and implications of foreign policy had never actually occurred to me before, despite all my political leanings and philosophic upbringing. I was completely behind Bush and his crusading in the Middle East, even though I despised everything else he did. I thought, "we can't just leave Iraq, there'd be chaos!" I wasn't connecting the dots until I heard Ron Paul at one of the early GOP debates. Actually listening to him speak against the slew of me-too candidates who had nothing to offer but reiterated demagoguery and blatant straw men drew me in.

Later, I discovered Mises. I learned all about the Federal Reserve (I was already against fiat money, but for moral reasons without fully understanding a practical economic foundation). I bought Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. Ron Paul not only brought more people around to my line of thinking, but he also brought me around to HIS line of thinking. His courageousness in the limelight is unrivaled. He's my biggest hero, and heroes are good to have.

 

[Len Larson]

I've had good luck referring people to Mises.org and especially Rothbards "The Ethics of Liberty" Free pdf of Ethics

 

[febo]

As a neocon in 99% complete recovery mode, I had to rethink years of deeply entrenched ideology to become a Ron Paul supporter, particularly on foreign policy.

Can recovering liberals for Ron Paul tell me what was your greatest struggle in your Ron Paul conversion?

Disentangling the highly confused strands. Many lefties conflate neo-liberalism and free market economics, capitalism and corporatism - and it is difficult to avoid without listening to a lot of Ron Paul. Consider these contradictions/"alarming" associations:

- Alan Greenspan was a follower of Ayn Rand
- Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan spouted an individualistic, do-it-yourself philosphy but supported corporatist greed, big govt and war
- RP's Tea Party Vs NeoCon Tea Party
- individualism > Nietzsche < National Socialism!
- libertarianism > anarchism! (Lew Rockwell)

Our categories and defintions are corrupt and confused and we tend to fly off the handle if someone uses the wrong word.