Can recovering liberals tell a recovering neocon what was greatest struggle to overcome

[kr1963]

I grew up with a liberal Professor Father. But by the time I got to college I knew that there was something wrong with both parties. I promoted John Anderson even though I was not old enough to vote in 1980. I stupidly voted for Mondale in 1984 b/c I disliked Reagan. 88 I was out of the country. 92 it was Ross Perot. 96 & 00 I was thoroughly disillusioned. In 04 I thought about McCain for 2 seconds then I thought NO. So I was always looking for that 3rd party like guy who would break the NWO's back.

I knew about RP from videos I had seen int he 1990s about anti-Big Pharma legislation.

Since 2007 I feel i have my political life back.

Somewhere between 1992 & 2007 I went through a more thorough EDUCATION then conversion of taking everything I had learned in my world travels & putting it into practical use. I knew that DC was OWNED & corrupt.

TG RP is climbing the polls. We actually have HOPE.

 

[jeremiah89]

Are any of you former/recovering liberals here because Obama did something that really turned you off?

Well, I don't know that I would have considered myself a hardcore liberal. I've only been heavily into politics really at all since the 2008 election, and even more this time around. I did vote for Obama though, and found myself agreeing with quite a few of his ideas.

Since then, however, I've been increasingly drawn to libertarian ideas. It really wasn't a super huge jump, though. I've always kinda felt that neither the Republicans or Democrats had it all right. Before I knew what libertarian was, I remember thinking that I was socially liberal (people should be free to do what they want, provided they're not harming anyone), but at the same time I felt that the government should be a little bit more responsible with their money.

I guess I'd say the biggest struggle would be realizing that all of the government social programs are not really ideal, and that it's much better to enable individuals, churches, and charities to give to people who are needy.

 

[cjm]

And that's important -- Obama has really, really, pissed off a lot of the left that believed in him. That thought he'd end the wars. End Guantanamo, etc.

I know several self-described liberals who were vehemently anti-war during the Bush regime and have become not only indulgent, but actually pro-war under the Obama regime. Words escape me.

 

[BuddyRey]

I don't know if this will help you convince your neoconservative friends, but what finally convinced me that liberalism was morally untenable was the dawning knowledge that, even as someone who would never hurt or aggress against anybody myself, I was advocating aggression by proxy, in the form of taxation. I also realized that the wars I loathed so thoroughly could have only been financed through taxation, and this led to the further realization that about 7 out of 10 things our taxes pay for are things most of my fellow Socialists and I would consider completely unconscionable (caging non-violent people, slaughtering people overseas, etc.), while the other 3 out of 10 are good things that could just as easily be done voluntarily.

The Non-Aggression Principle hit me like a bolt out of the blue, and I saw very quickly how hypocritical I had been for more than a half a decade in which I called myself a Socialist.

 

[affa]

I know several self-described liberals who were vehemently anti-war during the Bush regime and have become not only indulgent, but actually pro-war under the Obama regime. Words escape me.

It's only personal observation, so take it for what it's worth -- but I come from an east coast democratic family, used to live in NYC, and now live in portland, oregon. I know a ton of people on the left.

None defend war.

A couple are short circuiting because Obama failed them so hard, and they're trying to piece together their world view. Many are still anti-war, but upset the movement has lost organizational energy since Bush left office.

The ones who are paying attention are very sick of Obama, and ripe for picking as Ron Paul supporters. They need to be approached the right way; the words used by the so-called left and right mean different things.

 

[affa]

Disentangling the highly confused strands. Many lefties conflate neo-liberalism and free market economics, capitalism and corporatism - and it is difficult to avoid without listening to a lot of Ron Paul. Consider these contradictions/"alarming" associations:

This, this, and this.

The media has spent decades dividing us. Look at the way the so-called left and right treat each other nowadays... it's more name calling than discourse, and an absolute belief that the other side is 'stupid', and the 'enemy'.

Some people hear words like 'deregulate' and think - oh, so there are no laws stopping BP from leaking oil into the gulf? Or, they think about child labor, or sweat shops. These are all serious issues, and to drop words like deregulate without explaining your position on these other issues, or to simply name-call someone talking about regulations a 'socialist', do little to further our cause. It just divides us.

People are right to be wary of big companies, and just as we're right to be wary of big government. And while I agree it's silly to think one corrupt agency will somehow 'solve' problems caused by a corrupt industry, it requires education.

Most people have no idea what the 'Department of Education' does, nor it's history. When they hear talk of abolishing it, they think it's bad for children... and it needs to be explained to them. Just like it needs to be explained to many on the so-called 'right' why the war on drugs is bad for liberty.

We're all in this together. And surprisingly, the vast majority of us are on the same team, though we often don't even know it.

The false left/right paradigm needs to end.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

It's only personal observation, so take it for what it's worth -- but I come from an east coast democratic family, used to live in NYC, and now live in portland, oregon. I know a ton of people on the left.

None defend war.

A couple are short circuiting because Obama failed them so hard, and they're trying to piece together their world view. Many are still anti-war, but upset the movement has lost organizational energy since Bush left office.

The ones who are paying attention are very sick of Obama, and ripe for picking as Ron Paul supporters. They need to be approached the right way; the words used by the so-called left and right mean different things.

Mary Ruwart could be used for that, methinks.

 

[djruden]

Realizing the liberal media complex in basically all media

 

[pen_thief]

My biggest struggle as a former Lib was the universal healthcare issue. I'd just had a $40,000 hospital stay w/o insurance to have an emergency gallbladder surgery and quite frankly I was enraged and thought Michael Moore had made solid points in his Sicko film. Then, I realized that these countries he's bragging about are all going broke, and that the cost of medical care is going up here at an INSANE rate. Knowing that I could have afforded insurance or gotten this done for much less changed my mind. Yes, I want everyone to have access to healthcare, but they should not be leeching off of others to get it if they're downright lazy. As for the poor and disabled, I would definitely donate to a charity, as I think many others would if they had some more money left from their paychecks.

 

[Nate]

It's only personal observation, so take it for what it's worth -- but I come from an east coast democratic family, used to live in NYC, and now live in portland, oregon. I know a ton of people on the left.

None defend war.

A couple are short circuiting because Obama failed them so hard, and they're trying to piece together their world view. Many are still anti-war, but upset the movement has lost organizational energy since Bush left office.

The ones who are paying attention are very sick of Obama, and ripe for picking as Ron Paul supporters. They need to be approached the right way; the words used by the so-called left and right mean different things.

Reading stuff by left-libertarians such as Roderick Long & Kevin Carson from The Center for a Stateless Society is extremely helpful in explaining the benefits of a free market to self proclaimed liberals & progressives. You are completely right in that talking to many "leftists" you must use more left-wing rhetoric & phrase your answers much differently. Which is where I feel C4SS is very valuable, I've become great at debating & discussing the issues with "leftists" since I started reading their materials.

 

[Aratus]

tacitly, dr. ron paul may be the ideal guy for the budget crisis.
otherwise i would not have doubted my home state's senators.