Can McCain even be President?

[kb8wmc]

Luria v US, 231 US 9 (1913)
Citizenship is membership in a political society, and implies a duty of allegiance on the part of the member and a duty of protection on the part of the society. These are reciprocal obligations, one being a compensation for the other. Under our Constitution, a naturalized citizen stands on an equal footing with the native citizen in all respects, save that of eligibility to the Presidency. Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162, 165, 22 L. ed. 627; Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, 101, 28 S. L. ed. 643, 645, 5 Sup. Ct. Rep. 41; Osborn v. Bank of United States, 9 Wheat. 738, 827, 6 L. ed. 204, 225.

 

[jointhefightforfreedom]

It doesn't friggin matter what mcpain is! He's not going to be president! Period!

I want this question officially answered!!

Doesn't it stand to reason if that this is true and can't be president they how can he be the nominee?

If so then would he have to withdraw from the race?

Either way this needs to be answered officially i say we ask for a ruling by court or FEC or someone!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[acptulsa]

Are we still talking about this? Its not really an issue. It doesnt matter.

If you think the Constitution doesn't matter, why are you here? If he's natural born, why was he naturalized at age sixteen? If we let him get away with it, what the hell are we good for? It didn't come up before and voting your conscience is throwing your vote away--yada yada.

We essentially lost habeus corpus because not enough people thought it mattered to take a stand. We are essentially losing our right to privacy because not enough people thought it mattered to take a stand. More people are taking a stand every day. In a republic, what the majority says matters does matter. McCain hasn't been challenged on this--yet--but it will happen. Count on it.

 

[angelatc]

I respectfully disagree. Children born on ships in territorial waters to U.S. citizens aren't legally considered natural born. And McCain wasn't born in the Canal Zone--he was born in a hospital in the Republic of Panama.

I think John Roberts would never swear him in for fear of leaving himself open for impeachment, myself. I also think this is our lever for allowing our delegates to consider themselves unbound at the convention. Why would they consider themselves bound to vote for a candidate who is not Constitutionally eligible for the office in question?

Sorry, Bradley, but you're wrong on this one.

No, you're wrong. Children born to US citizens are natural born citizens no matter where they're born.

Where he was born has nothing to do with it. Get it? Because his parents were citizens (who met the residency requirement in effect at the time) he could have been born on the moon and he would be a natural born citizen.

I swear, this topic that won't die is the best argument against public schools that I've seen in a loooooong time.

You can become a citizen in several ways.

#1 on the list is being born the child of citizens.
#2 is being born in the US unless you're the child of a foreign diplomat.
#3 is becoming naturalized.

People born on ships at sea, and on bases aren't considered automatic citizens. If a Japanese woman gives birth on a US AIr Base, her baby isn't American unless her husband is American.

Why is this so freaking hard for people to understand?

 

[jointhefightforfreedom]

If you think the Constitution doesn't matter, why are you here? If he's natural born, why was he naturalized at age sixteen? If we let him get away with it, what the hell are we good for? It didn't come up before and voting your conscience is throwing your vote away--yada yada.

We essentially lost habeus corpus because not enough people thought it mattered to take a stand. We are essentially losing our right to privacy because not enough people thought it mattered to take a stand. More people are taking a stand every day. In a republic, what the majority says matters does matter. McCain hasn't been challenged on this--yet--but it will happen. Count on it.

Right on !!!

I say we do not quit on this issue until it is legally and officially settled on!
Any attorney's in the house who will volunteer to start this lawsuit?
I'm sure we can raise some money for this !

 

[acptulsa]

Children born to US citizens are natural born citizens no matter where they're born...

People born on ships at sea, and on bases aren't considered automatic citizens...

Why is this so freaking hard for people to understand?

Hmmm, I wonder. Could it be because the law and the Constitutional provision are vague and contradictory as you yourself just demonstrated in no uncertain terms? Vague or not, it is the law, and our delegates have the right to respect it.

 

[scandinaviany3]

bradley..huh?

McCain is a natural born citizen because his parents were citizens when he was born. Period.

Huh?

The acts over panama disagree with you on statute.

Granted very flimsy statutes could be quickly wrote to give him natural born status...right now i see nothing to support the claim.

But if someone were to challenge via current law and any future laws that by ex post facto would establish natural born citizenship upon just john mccain or others in his position we would have quite a fun time on our hands.

 

[kb8wmc]

One more time:

Luria v US, 231 US 9 (1913)

Citizenship is membership in a political society, and implies a duty of allegiance on the part of the member and a duty of protection on the part of the society. These are reciprocal obligations, one being a compensation for the other. Under our Constitution, a naturalized citizen stands on an equal footing with the native citizen in all respects, save that of eligibility to the Presidency.
Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162, 165, 22 L. ed. 627; Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, 101, 28 S. L. ed. 643, 645, 5 Sup. Ct. Rep. 41; Osborn v. Bank of United States, 9 Wheat. 738, 827, 6 L. ed. 204, 225.

SF

 

[angelatc]

If you think the Constitution doesn't matter, why are you here? If he's natural born, why was he naturalized at age sixteen? If we let him get away with it, what the hell are we good for? It didn't come up before and voting your conscience is throwing your vote away--yada yada.

t.

This their game - they throw stuff that's nonsense out there, so that people will look like loons when they insist that it's true. That in turn undermines their credibility when legitimate issues arise.

Section 1403 applied to a small group of people who were citizens, but had been in Panama so long they didn't qualify to give birth to natural born citizens because the statue has a residency requirement.

McCain's parents weren't in that small subset. Section 1403 did not affect his status.

McCain is a natural-born citizen under 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person."

which predates 1403(a).

Get a grip.

 

[angelatc]

Hmmm, I wonder. Could it be because the law and the Constitutional provision are vague and contradictory as you yourself just demonstrated in no uncertain terms? Vague or not, it is the law, and our delegates have the right to respect it.

The freaking law isn't vague. That's how I know that people born on ships and on bases to non-citizens aren't citizens. The law says they're not citizens.

Duh.

 

[acptulsa]

Well of course people born outside the U.S. to non-citizens aren't citizens.

The law you refer to and the Constitutional requirement for the presidency are two different things. You need to do more freaking research. Sorry, but it's true.

 

[angelatc]

Well of course people born outside the U.S. to non-citizens aren't citizens.

The law you refer to and the Constitutional requirement for the presidency are two different things. You need to do more freaking research. Sorry, but it's true.

Are you just thick? The Constitution provides the framework, but the statutes are the law.

The Constitution says that McCain can't be President unless he is a natural born citizen.

The law says he is a natural born citizen.

Sheesh.

 

[angelatc]

//

 

[JS4Pat]

This seems absurd.

If you are the child of two American citizens are you not an American no matter where you are born?

 

[acptulsa]

Luria v US, 231 US 9 (1913)
Citizenship is membership in a political society, and implies a duty of allegiance on the part of the member and a duty of protection on the part of the society. These are reciprocal obligations, one being a compensation for the other. Under our Constitution, a naturalized citizen stands on an equal footing with the native citizen in all respects, save that of eligibility to the Presidency. Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162, 165, 22 L. ed. 627; Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, 101, 28 S. L. ed. 643, 645, 5 Sup. Ct. Rep. 41; Osborn v. Bank of United States, 9 Wheat. 738, 827, 6 L. ed. 204, 225.

If all is as you say angelatc, why did McCain go to the trouble to get naturalized at age sixteen?

 

[angelatc]

Well of course people born outside the U.S. to non-citizens aren't citizens.

Argh. It's a territorial example, one that you brought up, aboth examples are is specifically addressed in statutes,

You said the law was vague. I said it wasn't.

Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[jmdrake]

This isn't grasping at straws. Being a U.S. citizen isn't enough. McCain is a U.S. citizen and so is Ahnold, but neither is eligible for the presidency.

Arnold is an immigrant that became naturalized. McCain's parents were on assignment as a result of orders from the U.S. government! It's not even like they were out of the country for tourism. The founding fathers never intended to punish soldiers for doing their duty by blocking their children born while they were on assignment from becoming president. The intent was and has always been to keep people who's allegiance may be somewhere else (like Arnold) from becoming president. McCain won't ever have to worry about being sworn in because his "100 years of war" is not going to go down with the 60 to 70% of Americans that are STILL against this war. He will get the republican nomination barring a miracle and he will not get the presidency barring a disaster.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[angelatc]

If all is as you say angelatc, why did McCain go to the trouble to get naturalized at age sixteen?

He didn't! Why do you think he did?

A law went into effect when he was 16. It affected some people that lived in the country where he was born. It did not affect him.

 

[salsero96]

Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.

//

 

[angelatc]

On March 26, 1790, the first Congress approved an act that specifically declared, "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States."

If you want to argue intent rather than statute, I'm good with that too.