Can a Christian support torture?

[Todd]

The definition is such: inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.

So 4 forum members voted that a "true" Christian can support torture? I'd love to hear the reasons. How about for not believing in Christ? (Inquisition) or not believing in the Roman Gods?

"The Passion" is about the Torture of Christ and I would wager that no Christians feel what the Roman's did to him was justified?

I think it's pretty evident if you support violence against someone for any reason other than defending your own life then you are not following the teachings of Christ. And even then some would argue it's debatable.

"You will know them by their fruits"......

 

[Brett85]

I think it's pretty evident if you support violence against someone for any reason other than defending your own life then you are not following the teachings of Christ. And even then some would argue it's debatable.

What about defending the lives of others?

 

[Brett85]

I'm never going to agree with this idea that you have to have certain political views to be a Christian. Christian conservatives do that all the time, basically claiming that you have to want the government to ban everything that's a sin in order to be a Christian. I just get sick of this from both sides. Your political views have nothing to do with whether you're a Christian or not. Nothing. It's about your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[mosquitobite]

I just get sick of this from both sides. Your political views have nothing to do with whether you're a Christian or not. Nothing. It's about your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Correct. Except that as you draw closer in relationship with the Lord, you see certain things as a sin that he died for, yet you are condoning. Personally, I think that makes you go against your faith, and thus either your political views are WRONG or your faith is not as true as you believe it to be. In either case, it needs more depth.

For a Christian there are far worse things to happen in a life than death. This is why I don't get all bent out of shape over beheadings. If someone is going to kill me, just do it - and do it quickly. Unending torture such as hypothermia as a cause of death, from MY perspective is about as Satanic as you can get. Death is far more merciful.

 

[Todd]

What about defending the lives of others?

You mean the ticking time bomb fallacy? Nope.

 

[Brett85]

Correct. Except that as you draw closer in relationship with the Lord, you see certain things as a sin that he died for, yet you are condoning. Personally, I think that makes you go against your faith, and thus either your political views are WRONG or your faith is not as true as you believe it to be. In either case, it needs more depth.

For a Christian there are far worse things to happen in a life than death. This is why I don't get all bent out of shape over beheadings. If someone is going to kill me, just do it - and do it quickly. Unending torture such as hypothermia as a cause of death, from MY perspective is about as Satanic as you can get. Death is far more merciful.

I don't see any particular verse in the Bible that says that torture is wrong in every single situation. I believe that torture is generally wrong, and we shouldn't do it unless there's a situation in which doing nothing would result in a far greater evil. I don't support using it on a regular basis and oppose institutionalized torture like what occurred with the CIA during the Bush years. But if you're going to claim that the Christian religion teaches that torture is a sin in every single circumstance, and that you can't be a Christian if you don't agree with that, then I'm going to have to call you out on that. Because there's absolutely no verse in the Bible which teaches such a thing.

 

[Todd]

I'm never going to agree with this idea that you have to have certain political views to be a Christian. Christian conservatives do that all the time, basically claiming that you have to want the government to ban everything that's a sin in order to be a Christian. I just get sick of this from both sides. Your political views have nothing to do with whether you're a Christian or not. Nothing. It's about your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

You will know them by their fruits.

Ideas define who we are. If who we say we are is X, then our beliefs, and actions will speak to it.

 

[presence]

The definition of torture is inflicting pain on someone.

???

not "someone"


Torture is inflicting pain on a captive.

 

[Brett85]

You will know them by their fruits.

Ideas define who we are. If who we say we are is X, then our beliefs, and actions will speak to it.

You don't have to have perfect fruit to be a Christian. Everyone is a sinner, and Christ died for every sin. Having bad ideas or bad political views also isn't one of the sins that Paul said indicates lostness.

 

[otherone]

I don't see any particular verse in the Bible that says that torture is wrong in every single situation.

It doesn't say that microwaving your cat is wrong, either.

 

[Brett85]

It doesn't say that microwaving your cat is wrong, either.

It does. There are verses in the Bible which say that it's wrong to abuse animals.

 

[otherone]

It does. There are verses in the Bible which say that it's wrong to abuse animals.

Are humans less than animals?
What if the cat knows where your kidnapped kid is?

 

[Brett85]

Are humans less than animals?
What if the cat knows where your kidnapped kid is?

I'm pretty sure that a cat can't tell you that. I believe that torture is always wrong when it's used simply as a means to punish people and inflict pain for the tormenter's satisfaction. The example you gave with the cat would be a situation where a person tortured a cat simply for the purpose of being sadistic.

 

[Todd]

It doesn't say that microwaving your cat is wrong, either.

Bravo. Yep.

if you say you believe in torture, and say you are a Christian, and say you follow the teachings of Christ, and say you have a relationship with him......and aren't having a little bit of Cognitive dissonance.....then.......

 

[Todd]

You don't have to have perfect fruit to be a Christian. Everyone is a sinner, and Christ died for every sin. Having bad ideas or bad political views also isn't one of the sins that Paul said indicates lostness.

Who said Perfection? That's you.

My take is that according to the sermon on the mount is you don't fight evil with evil and then I'd guess the next step is you had better pray for the person to give up the information. Don't really know where Jesus said to beat them with a phone book or Bible to hide the bruises.

Bad Political views? We aren't talking about a mistake vote for Santorum or Romney. Or voting for the bailouts.

We are talking about violence used to coerce another.

 

[Brett85]

My take is that according to the sermon on the mount is you don't fight evil with evil and then I'd guess the next step is you had better pray for the person to give up the information. Don't really know where Jesus said to beat them with a phone book or Bible to hide the bruises.

Jesus didn't say anything about this particular issue. The Bible is silent on this particular issue. If what Jesus said when he talked about turning the other cheek is meant to be taken 100% literally, then all violence is immoral, even in self defense. And I don't see anyone here arguing that all violence is immoral. So I'm not seeing any consistency at all in what people are arguing.

 

[Todd]

Jesus didn't say anything about this particular issue. The Bible is silent on this particular issue. If what Jesus said when he talked about turning the other cheek is meant to be taken 100% literally, then all violence is immoral, even in self defense. And I don't see anyone here arguing that all violence is immoral. So I'm not seeing any consistency at all in what people are arguing.

Yep. He said you will know them by their fruits.

 

[otherone]

Jesus didn't say anything about this particular issue. The Bible is silent on this particular issue.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

[Brett85]

Yep. He said you will know them by their fruits.

Which of course means "you will know them by their political views."

 

[Brett85]

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Ok, then if you're going to interpret that verse in the way that you seem to be interpreting it, then using any kind of violence against your enemies is always wrong. It's wrong to use violence against your enemy even when your enemy attacks you and uses force against you. Is that the position that you're taking?