Atheist Ron Paul supporters

[acptulsa]

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I personally think the vitriol stems from some priest abuse somewhere back down the line. Can't think of any other reason to spam vehemenantly and with venom against religion.

At least the religious are trying to sell something they believe is positively, whether or not they do a positive job of selling it. But to prosthelatize a negative could only be arrogance (and who is really this arrogant?) or the product of religion doing some real harm along the way.

 

[acptulsa]

"There is no argument in the world carries the hatred that a religious belief does. The more learned a man is the less consideration he has for another man's belief."--Will Rogers 1924

"Hunt out and talk about the good that is in the other fellow's church, not the bad, and you will do away with all this religious hatred you hear so much of nowadays."--Will Rogers 1923

Gee, wonder why some of us consider this stuff trollish? No matter which side does it?

 

[1000-points-of-fright]

A slight clarification: I mean zealotry as in those who cannot seem to keep it to themselves. You can be absolutely devoted to your religion and not have to have everyone believe and worship just as you do.

I knew what you meant. I just felt like making the point that relativism really has no place in religion. Unless a main tenet of your religion IS relativism. Which is extremely rare.

 

[acptulsa]

I knew what you meant. I just felt like making the point that relativism really has no place in religion. Unless a main tenet of your religion IS relativism. Which is extremely rare.

Well I do. My relatives tend to spend more time in church than I do, but we can agree that this doesn't necessarily make them closer to God than I am. Just means that we can have different paths to the same end. So, maybe if everyone on every side chilled out about whether everyone needs to do things their way, we could relate to each other civilly...

Damnation. We come here to promote liberty and to say that one size fits all laws are bad, then we go intolerant on each other. Too weird for me.

 

[acptulsa]

I seem to have struck a nerve. From Torquemada to pedophilia, has anything done more to set back faith than the Catholic church? Not that Catholicism is all bad--Mother Theresa was living proof that it isn't--nor that it's the only one--few televangelistic Pharisees are Catholic. Don't get me wrong, or put words in my mouth. But what could possibly be more evil than the evils humans do in God's otherwise good name? 'Tis sad.

 

[Revolution9]

Agreed. I'm on pretty much the same page as you, although I do feel with certainty "God" does not exist by the Common traditional definition.

Of course by definition a Divine Creator does not exist. He IS. This "existence or not of Deity" is the prime fallacy of atheistic argumentations.

HTH
Rev9

 

[idirtify]

Of course by definition a Divine Creator does not exist. He IS. This "existence or not of Deity" is the prime fallacy of atheistic argumentations.

HTH
Rev9

If you are going to change English definitions, at least you should try to explain better. Short of that, your use of “IS” equates to “exists”, and you have not shown “the prime fallacy of atheistic argumentations”.

 

[Suzu]

From Torquemada to pedophilia, has anything done more to set back faith than the Catholic church? Not that Catholicism is all bad--Mother Theresa was living proof that it isn't

You might want to check out Tom Woods' take on this topic, in his book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.

 

[Revolution9]

If you are going to change English definitions, at least you should try to explain better. Short of that, your use of “IS” equates to “exists”, and you have not shown “the prime fallacy of atheistic argumentations”.

IS != is

Your debunking relies on twisting variables and making the inherent sigil behind the word a different quality and then comparing based on your unslotting and reslotting. A prime method in an atheistic argumentation stance.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

You might want to check out Tom Woods' take on this topic, in his book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.

He might want to check out the work of Professor Andrew Lobacsewski on ponerology...Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm

Once it is understood that approximately 5% of the population are psychopaths and how and why they get into positions of power and what then happens subsequently to those societies, then accusations such as the ones he makes stand on entirely different ground. It is wise to know this as knowledge provides protection and detection. The bonus for the atheists is this is a scientific tract. They would also be well to digest the contents of the good Professors work as it would immediately cast resolute doubts on the ability of anarchy to exist in this world in any form but on paper and endless arguments on various forums. It also shows the necessity of government as a body to protect its citizens liberties. Do not mistake a ponerized government and its adherents which you anarchists like to toss the moniker "statist" at in a superior air..but you are inferior because you do not understand the subtle nature of the infiltration of the psychopath. Or perhaps you aid him unwittingly in the quest to will to power over others coupled to a lack of empathy and inhuman behavior.

Rev9

 

[idirtify]

IS != is

Your debunking relies on twisting variables and making the inherent sigil behind the word a different quality and then comparing based on your unslotting and reslotting. A prime method in an atheistic argumentation stance.

Rev9

What are you talking about? Last I knew, you were saying that a Divine Creator does not exist, but “He IS”. Last I checked the English language, if something IS, it EXISTS. Therefore your claim is contradictory. Now, could you please reword your rebuttal?

 

[KCIndy]

He might want to check out the work of Professor Andrew Lobacsewski on ponerology...Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm

When I was in high school, my mom found my ponerology stash under my mattress when she was cleaning my room....

 

[idirtify]

He might want to check out the work of Professor Andrew Lobacsewski on ponerology...Political Ponerology: A Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/political_ponerology_lobaczewski.htm

Once it is understood that approximately 5% of the population are psychopaths and how and why they get into positions of power and what then happens subsequently to those societies, then accusations such as the ones he makes stand on entirely different ground. It is wise to know this as knowledge provides protection and detection. The bonus for the atheists is this is a scientific tract. They would also be well to digest the contents of the good Professors work as it would immediately cast resolute doubts on the ability of anarchy to exist in this world in any form but on paper and endless arguments on various forums. It also shows the necessity of government as a body to protect its citizens liberties. Do not mistake a ponerized government and its adherents which you anarchists like to toss the moniker "statist" at in a superior air..but you are inferior because you do not understand the subtle nature of the infiltration of the psychopath. Or perhaps you aid him unwittingly in the quest to will to power over others coupled to a lack of empathy and inhuman behavior.

Rev9

Seems we are getting off-topic but…
So governments are needed to protect us from the 5% who are psychopaths, who then concentrate in a much higher percent in said governments?? How does that work?

 

[Revolution9]

What are you talking about? Last I knew, you were saying that a Divine Creator does not exist, but “He IS”. Last I checked the English language, if something IS, it EXISTS. Therefore your claim is contradictory. Now, could you please reword your rebuttal?

Nope. If yer too shallow minded to parse that then I have no reason to traffic with you as you are acting as an intellectual reprobate. Standard practice for those of your philosophical bent.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

When I was in high school, my mom found my ponerology stash under my mattress when she was cleaning my room....

Who was your fave centerfold? Mao, Bundy, Bush, Hitler, Torquemada...or...?

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

Seems we are getting off-topic but…
So governments are needed to protect us from the 5% who are psychopaths, who then concentrate in a much higher percent in said governments?? How does that work?

We have a saying in the software tools world. RTFM (read the fucking manual). It applies here. If you are too effing lazy to read that and want your hand held then your philosophical stance on anything is quite suspect.

Rev9

 

[jmdrake]

You might want to check out Tom Woods' take on this topic, in his book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.

Tom Woods is wrong about a lot.

 

[1000-points-of-fright]

What are you talking about? Last I knew, you were saying that a Divine Creator does not exist, but “He IS”. Last I checked the English language, if something IS, it EXISTS. Therefore your claim is contradictory. Now, could you please reword your rebuttal?

Didn't you notice that he used all caps? End of argument.

 

[jmdrake]

Which is why I am anti-zealot.

There are some folks on this board who would actually, in an ideal society, kill people for their bedroom behavior (based on religious reasons). Those same folks want to spread their religion to others, and are not very good at the "live and let live" philosophy.

There are some folks who are rabidly atheist and seem to shun any mention of religion, and screech at reminders that the very person this forum is named after is a Christian and dares to be open about it.

We know that.

Now make the next leap...

There are environmentalist zealots out there who claim they know that climate change is man-made, and that legislation is needed to stop it. For your own good and the good of the children, we must take away anything that pollutes, imprison those who would harm Mother Earth, and so on. Like with the sort of corruption within early churches where you could "buy your way to heaven," we now hear of carbon footprints, and credits, and being allowed to pollute so long as you pay enough.

If you put your mind to it, you can think of many segments of our society where people have 100% faith in their cause, and try to use violence, force, and economic manipulation to get others to agree or shut up about their dissenting views.

You have hit the nail on the head by saying it's the mentality that's bad. The next step I was talking about is realizing it is so, independent of religion. Religion has just been the easiest means of grabbing people for so long that it's the way we have the most examples of. When your society isn't entirely sure the sun will rise, someone promising that they can chant and dance and sacrifice a chicken and cause it to rise tomorrow suddenly becomes revered. Organized religion has long eased the worries people have about the unknown. Now with more of the "unknown" explained, what's left is still exploited and often in a very secular way. Our vulnerabilities as a society of have-nots are still used to control us.

Good post! And it explains why Darwinism is dangerous in the hands of people like Hitler or Stalin, but not dangerous in the hands of people like Stephen Hawking. Or why religion is dangerous in the hands of people like the inquisitors or Oliver Cromwell, but not dangerous in the hands of Ghandi or Roger Williams. And for the record, I don't think the problem is organized religion per se. Organized religion is no worse than organized politics. It all depends on who's doing the organizing and for what purpose.

 

[idirtify]

Nope. If yer too shallow minded to parse that then I have no reason to traffic with you as you are acting as an intellectual reprobate. Standard practice for those of your philosophical bent.

Rev9

Why have you chosen to start tossing insults? Can’t you defend your claim? Once again, the one who advocates religion is the one who initiates aggression.