Atheist Ron Paul supporters

[ronpaulitician]

The struggling is because we have wandered away again to false gods because of our pride.

Or the struggling is because we're clinging to the one remaining false god because of our stubborness.

If you teach your kids that only through following (the flawed human writings that were supposedly inspired by) a god can they be moral, then, yes, perhaps the lessening influence of that god on society could negatively affect those kids (temporarily, until they discover the untruth in that teaching) in that if they ever start to question their god, they might just go crazy and rape and murder anyone they can get their hands on.

I do not need religion to tell me that murder and rape are wrong. I do not need religious writings to know that "do unto others" is a good life lesson to adhere to.

The logic in my signature applies to religion as well as it does to government.

 

[AceNZ]

The young are having sex and taking drugs as small schoolchildren.

When you restrict free choice in every corner of people's lives, they have a tendency to find some way to be free anyway, even if it's self-destructive.

Men are dressing like women and women act as ruthless as men.

Because they're waking up and realizing they don't have to suppress what they really are.

This 'smarter, more educated people' who are very very likely to be pro-choice speaks more to the quality of education our children are learning in public schools and in university

People who are pro-choice understand that the rights of a woman come before the rights of some piece of protoplasm that she happens to be carrying, and that a potential person is not an actual person. That in turn comes from logic, reasoning and rationality.

fed by the devil box called the television and passing the more impressionable and formative years trapped in a virtual world, their values being indoctrinated over flashy monitors and game consoles.

"devil box"? Television has done more to educate humanity than almost any other device in history. You may not agree with that education, and it has certainly been abused, but it has also done tremendous good.

The absence of God in popular culture and the collective trend towards moral relativism, idolatry, and self-worship is what has caused us as a nation and as a people to struggle.

You say God is absent in popular culture -- I say the influence of Christians and other theists completely dominate popular culture in the US. More than 80% of Americans believe in God; how could it be otherwise?

The struggling is because we have wandered away again to false gods because of our pride.

Aristotle said pride is the greatest of all virtues, and I agree with him. Any belief system that disparages pride is an enemy of man. Pride is the psychological reward we earn for living our lives, for being just, honest, having integrity, being an independent thinker, etc.

The values instilled by societies upon their children are the foundation to which anything good can come about.

The problem is that many values that instilled in children today come through government schools and religion. Either is dangerous on its own; together, it's a disaster.

Do you believe values are fairy tales?

The purpose of values is to provide us with principles. If we live by these principles, we improve the chances of staying alive, being successful, and ultimately being happy. So, values are about principles that lead to happiness; they aren't fairy tales.

And if not, from whence do you base your good values from and aspire to attain, from the three pound noodle in your skull?

Well, I would say we know things by using our mind, and that mind and brain aren't the same thing.

How else can we know anything at all, other than through our mind? Emotions are not a means of cognition. Revelation is not a means of cognition.

It is somewhat ironic that the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' which atheists mockingly worship resembles the god they actually do worship - that is the noodle they call their brain.

The dictionary definition of "worship" is "reverent honor and homage paid to god or a sacred personal, or to any object regarded as sacred." "sacred" means "devoted or dedicated to a deity or to some religious purpose; consecrated" or "entitled to veneration or religious respect by association with divinity or divine things; holy"

Atheists don't worship anything, because we lack belief in God. Therefore, there is no deity and nothing is religious; so nothing is sacred in the true sense of the word, and therefore nothing can be worshiped.

"the noodle they call their brain"? Sorry, that should be "the brain that you are mockingly calling a noodle." If you think you can survive only on "God's love," and without your brain, I urge you try. Animals cannot live as men, and men cannot live as animals. Our nature as humans requires us to use our minds to survive. If you truly reject that premise and stay honest to your convictions, it must lead to death; there is no other possibility.

 

[ronpaulitician]

Atheists don't worship anything, because we lack belief in God. Therefore, there is no deity and nothing is religious; so nothing is sacred in the true sense of the word, and therefore nothing can be worshiped.

Philosophy provides questions that may never be answered. Religion provides answers that may never be questioned.

 

[MelissaWV]

Philosophy provides questions that may never be answered. Religion provides answers that may never be questioned.

+rep and /end thread.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yes, we are becoming more educated, as is the rest of humanity. Generally speaking. Compared to 500 years ago, 100 years ago, etc. Recent history by generation, maybe not, but as a whole, yes.

And no, it isn't a "fact" that if we were a more educated country that Ron Paul would be president. That doesn't even make sense. If you are trying to get at the argument: smarter people vote for Paul, then fine. But surely doesn't count as proof.

And smarter, more educated people are very very likely to be pro choice. So those people wouldn't be pro-Paul. This has always been the case. Just saying. Source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/127559/education-trumps-gender-predicting-support-abortion.aspx

But hey, you think there is a fairy in the sky that made the world in a week 6000 years ago, so I don't think "facts" are really your deal.

He was talking about education; not government/secular humanist indoctrination. Just sayin'...

 

[AceNZ]

Philosophy provides questions that may never be answered.

A good philosophy tells us that we can ask questions; that we can seek answers; that the world is knowable and how we know things; that we can be certain; that we can be happy; that all things have a nature and must act according to that nature.

Religion provides answers that may never be questioned.

Yes, except religion also embodies a philosophy. Its premises include: don't question authority; rely on (conditioned) feelings rather than facts; believe that death is better than life; that things do not have to act according to their nature; that consciousness has primacy over existence; that the metaphysically given can be altered by prayer or hope; that the infinite can have an identity; that it is not in our nature to be able to know reality, so you can never be certain; that you are born evil; that the punishment for sin can be eternal damnation in hell; that sacrificing to others by giving up things you value for things you don't should be the primary goal of your life.

It's my belief that the political problems of today are rooted in incorrect philosophies, and until that changes, we should not expect any real improvements.

 

[reillym]

He was talking about education; not government/secular humanist indoctrination. Just sayin'...

Yes, how convenient. If something goes against your beliefs, simply call it indoctrination or a silly name. Problem solved.

12 year olds argue that way. We are adults.

How is college "government" indoctrination exactly? Public schools are not the only source of education.

And this is a secular government and secular country, last time I checked the Constitution. Are you against the Constitution? Are you against freedom of, and most importantly, FROM religion? If not, then you are anti-American. Hope not, because Paul is very pro-Constitution.

 

[TER]

Philosophy provides questions that may never be answered. Religion provides answers that may never be questioned.

A more accurate way would be to say that philosophy provides questions that may never be answered, or may be answered, and when they are answered, creates religion.

 

[idirtify]

I really can't believe any thinking man can call themselves an Atheist. The only way to be an Atheist is to know all things. It's an arrogant position to take. Why not be more humble and simply say you do not know - an Agnostic. I lose respect for a person quickly that claims to be a true Atheist the same as when I meet a "true believer". There's really no difference between, they are both religiously zealous about their beliefs.

Good grief.

OK, let’s see some hands. How many of you are “asocialists”, “acommunists”, “afascists”, “aliberals”, acorporatists”, aKeynesists”? Well let me tell you: you are all socialists, liberals, corporatists, and Keynesists; because it’s just another belief to say you don’t believe in a belief. LOL.

 

[DamianTV]

There is a God and they dont believe in him, there is NO God and everyone believes in him, what is the difference if we all end up slaves to Money Manipulators and DIE?

 

[libertarian4321]

Do you believe values are fairy tales? And if not, from whence do you base your good values from and aspire to attain, from the three pound noodle in your skull?

It is somewhat ironic that the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' which atheists mockingly worship resembles the god they actually do worship - that is the noodle they call their brain.

Pastafarianism is a REAL RELIGION- it's just as real and makes just as much sense as any other.

Until recently, I was an atheist. I was lost in the wilderness, stumbling though the darkness...

Until He touched me with his noodley appendage.

Now I have seen the light.

I can now walk again, am cancer free, spiritually fulfilled, and will soon be rich (as soon as I send my rent money to the Church). All because I had faith in Him!

Praise Jesus!

 

[Esoteric]

No.

Atheist = someone who positively believes that no god exists.

This is the biggiest piece of bullshit that religious dogmatists try to spew out at atheists. Atheism is a LACK of belief. LACK of believe rejects all existing religious arguments - IT DOES NOT CLAIM TO KNOW ANYTHING. Atheism requires NO FAITH.

 

[Esoteric]

Pastafarianism is a REAL RELIGION- it's just as real and makes just as much sense as any other.

Until recently, I was an atheist. I was lost in the wilderness, stumbling though the darkness...

Until He touched me with his noodley appendage.

Now I have seen the light.

I can now walk again, am cancer free, spiritually fulfilled, and will soon be rich (as soon as I send my rent money to the Church). All because I had faith in Him!

Praise Jesus!

Hey! I'm a man of Pasta too! We should start a "Pastafarians for Ron Paul" facebook group!

 

[pcosmar]

This is the biggiest piece of bullshit that religious dogmatists try to spew out at atheists. Atheism is a LACK of belief. LACK of believe rejects all existing religious arguments - IT DOES NOT CLAIM TO KNOW ANYTHING. Atheism requires NO FAITH.

I disagree.
but if that is your position, why are you posting in the "religion" sub forum?
Shouldn't you be arguing in "philosophy"?

 

[MelissaWV]

I disagree.
but if that is your position, why are you posting in the "religion" sub forum?
Shouldn't you be arguing in "philosophy"?

In all fairness, I think this got moved here?

 

[1000-points-of-fright]

I'm an Atheist in that I don't know with absolute certainty whether God does or does not exist. But my reasoning and the evidence that I have seen (or lack thereof) leads me to operate under the theory that a deity doesn't exist. That may change as the evidence changes. However, I do find there is an overwhelming amount of evidence proving that all religions are simply man-made myths for the purpose of organizing societies and in no way can any of them legitimately claim to know the will of God or the Gods. The organizing of society is not a bad thing. It's that whole "His way or the Highway" mentality that's bad.

 

[ClayTrainor]

I'm an Atheist in that I don't know with absolute certainty whether God does or does not exist. But my reasoning and the evidence that I have seen (or lack thereof) leads me to operate under the theory that a deity doesn't exist. That may change as the evidence changes. However, I do find there is an overwhelming amount of evidence proving that all religions are simply man-made myths for the purpose of organizing societies and in no way can any of them legitimately claim to know the will of God or the Gods. The organizing of society is not a bad thing. It's that whole "His way or that Highway" mentality that's bad.

Agreed. I'm on pretty much the same page as you, although I do feel with certainty "God" does not exist by the Common traditional definition.

 

[MelissaWV]

I'm an Atheist in that I don't know with absolute certainty whether God does or does not exist. But my reasoning and the evidence that I have seen (or lack thereof) leads me to operate under the theory that a deity doesn't exist. That may change as the evidence changes. However, I do find there is an overwhelming amount of evidence proving that all religions are simply man-made myths for the purpose of organizing societies and in no way can any of them legitimately claim to know the will of God or the Gods. The organizing of society is not a bad thing. It's that whole "His way or that Highway" mentality that's bad.

Which is why I am anti-zealot.

There are some folks on this board who would actually, in an ideal society, kill people for their bedroom behavior (based on religious reasons). Those same folks want to spread their religion to others, and are not very good at the "live and let live" philosophy.

There are some folks who are rabidly atheist and seem to shun any mention of religion, and screech at reminders that the very person this forum is named after is a Christian and dares to be open about it.

We know that.

Now make the next leap...

There are environmentalist zealots out there who claim they know that climate change is man-made, and that legislation is needed to stop it. For your own good and the good of the children, we must take away anything that pollutes, imprison those who would harm Mother Earth, and so on. Like with the sort of corruption within early churches where you could "buy your way to heaven," we now hear of carbon footprints, and credits, and being allowed to pollute so long as you pay enough.

If you put your mind to it, you can think of many segments of our society where people have 100% faith in their cause, and try to use violence, force, and economic manipulation to get others to agree or shut up about their dissenting views.

You have hit the nail on the head by saying it's the mentality that's bad. The next step I was talking about is realizing it is so, independent of religion. Religion has just been the easiest means of grabbing people for so long that it's the way we have the most examples of. When your society isn't entirely sure the sun will rise, someone promising that they can chant and dance and sacrifice a chicken and cause it to rise tomorrow suddenly becomes revered. Organized religion has long eased the worries people have about the unknown. Now with more of the "unknown" explained, what's left is still exploited and often in a very secular way. Our vulnerabilities as a society of have-nots are still used to control us.

 

[1000-points-of-fright]

Which is why I am anti-zealot.

I am also anti-zealot, but in a way I respect religious zealots. I don't like what they're proposing, but I respect their commitment. I don't get these namby-pamby religious people who view everyone's religion as valid. If you believe you know the truth, then by definition everyone who disagrees with you must, by definition, be wrong. If you believe accepting Jesus is the only way to get into heaven, then anyone who doesn't is burning in hell. If you're gonna take something on pure faith, then fucking own it and own it totally.

 

[MelissaWV]

Eh. I let people I know to be wrong do stupid crap all the time.

I own my own religion You own your own (or lack thereof). It's part of my belief that there is a God, and that you are made of pretty much the same stuff I am. I'm not free to lord over you and tell you what to believe or how to believe it. If you want to know those things, and ask me, I can tell you what I do and let you decide how you're going to proceed. If you don't want to know, or believe you know best, then you go on doing that and believing that.

A slight clarification: I mean zealotry as in those who cannot seem to keep it to themselves. You can be absolutely devoted to your religion and not have to have everyone believe and worship just as you do.