Atheist Ron Paul supporters

[reillym]

Wrong.

It means not playing football when playing football is the path to eternal life, not collecting stamps when collecting stamps is the way to truth, peace and joy, 'Off' on the TV when the hidden secrets and mysteries of life are being broadcasted over it, and "deceased" not being a 'lifestyle', but rather, the doorway to true and eternal life in the presence of God.

Yes, the "path to eternal life" as forced upon by the priests, churches, the state, and other things. Much akin to communism/fascism. It is propaganda to get people to live a certain way.

 

[TER]

Yes, the "path to eternal life" as forced upon by the priests, churches, the state, and other things. Much akin to communism/fascism. It is propaganda to get people to live a certain way.

lol Because the few atheistic societies have been so libertarian!

The very idea of liberty stems from the Christian understanding of individual worth as creatures made in the image of God, Who has endowed us with certain inalienable rights. Only then can a societal coexistence of peace and progress exist when the Christian based morals of mutual respect and mercy and love and forgiveness are valued, honored and protected. Only in a Christian society can men and women have the freedoms to worship as they please, even if it is the worship of their own three pound brain.

What, historically, has atheism led to? The freedoms of communist Soviet Union and the individual liberties of communist China!

 

[inibo]

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is a sport, not collecting stamps is a hobby, 'OFF' is a TV channel and "deceased" is a "lifestyle".

^-This.

 

[AceNZ]

What, historically, has atheism led to?

Historical atheist societies have also been heavily mystical. Mysticism is just as damaging as religion, when imposed on others.

And what, historically, have theocratic societies led to? Just as much death and destruction.

It's interesting to me that most Christians I know don't seem to appreciate the fact that the separation of church and state in the US has been a huge force in keeping them from destroying each other (along with the rest of us).

 

[robert68]

lol Because the few atheistic societies have been so libertarian!

The very idea of liberty stems from the Christian understanding of individual worth as creatures made in the image of God, Who has endowed us with certain inalienable rights. Only then can a societal coexistence of peace and progress exist when the Christian based morals of mutual respect and mercy and love and forgiveness are valued, honored and protected. Only in a Christian society can men and women have the freedoms to worship as they please, even if it is the worship of their own three pound brain.

What, historically, has atheism led to? The freedoms of communist Soviet Union and the individual liberties of communist China!

Such propaganda. Preceding the Soveit Union was Russia, and from the beginning, with (Saint) Prince Vladimir, it was a very politically centralized and economically feudal country - quite the opposite of libertarian – and the Russian Orthodox Church was a major political force throughout.

Also, the "fall of man", collective punishment from "God" to all the descendents of "the first man", is anti-individual, not libertarian.

 

[TER]

Such propaganda. Russia from the beginning was a very politically centralized and economically feudal country - quite the opposite of libertarian – and the Russian Orthodox Church was major political force throughout.

And still historically the only atheistic governments have been amongst the most murderous and repressive in history!

A Constitution like ours would never, NEVER have been produced in an atheistic society. In fact, God is mentioned quite prominently in the writings of the founders of this country.

Also, the "fall of man", collective punishment from "God", is anti-individual.

The fall of man happens every day, my friend. Or do you consider yourself to be sinless?

 

[robert68]

...

You'll have to take atheism up with an atheist. My post wasn't about it.

Also, you're evading what I wrote about the "fall of man".

 

[amyre]

It's interesting to me that most Christians I know don't seem to appreciate the fact that the separation of church and state in the US has been a huge force in keeping them from destroying each other (along with the rest of us).

There are some of us out there who appreciate that ^, and find it very troubling and terribly sad.

 

[TER]

You'll have to take atheism up with an atheist. My post wasn't about it.

Also, you're evading what I wrote about the "fall of man".

Not at all. Do you think you deserve by virtue of being born to be granted paradise, something akin to the Garden of Eden? That endowed by your own existence, you should by default have eternity, omnipotence, unaided or unsupported by the Source of what brought you to existence? What works have you done to justify you eternal life? What have you created which should necessitate you the riches of life and the joys of heavenly bliss? Are you, just because you are, entitled to those things that came before you? Do you have the love of Christ? Do you have the mercy of Christ? Do you have the wisdom and power of Christ?

The fall of man happened because Adam tried to be a god by his own self and on his own terms, thinking he could do so in disobedience and without the grace of his Source and Creator, all because of pride and selfishness. This is the spirit of Ayn Rand's 'Objectivism'.

As for the fall, it was collectivist in a sense that it has affected our generation from the very beginning. If it was not 'collectivist', then Adam and his descendants would have lived for eternity estranged from the source of life. They would have themselves to be in the company of the demons.

Because of God's mercy, lest we lose any chance to return to Him, did He allow us to fall, so that He might one day come down amongst us, suffer with us, and show us the way back to Him and to His Kingdom. You seem to see the fall as a punishment, but it was not a punishment unto eternal death - for the Christian believes we all, the righteous and the unrighteous, will one day rise again. But rather, so as an act of mercy, so that we might not follow the eternal path of satan and the demons into eternal darkness and estrangement from the Source and Creator of life, He gave us a way out and the opportunity to follow Him willfully and in truth.

 

[mczerone]

To the OP: why the insistence on labels?

Once upon a time I considered a life in the clergy. Once upon a different time I considered myself an atheist of the strongest sort.

Today? I have a very peculiar view of the meaning of life. Do I believe in the supernatural? No. I'm certain there is no thing that can be observed that is not "natural". Do I believe that there is no "higher power"? No. I'm unsure of the historical and contemporary accounts of encounters with deities, but I am sure that life has meaning.

Am I a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, or Wiccan? No. Am I an atheist? No.

I have faith that there is no "god", but I recognize that each of us who makes choices and transforms the world is a part of god.

I didn't believe it when I first read Heinlein, but today I do. Thou art God.

Tomorrow my faith might change, but I have faith today that it is correct.

 

[AceNZ]

And still historically the only atheistic governments have been amongst the most murderous and repressive in history!

And still historically Christians have been amongst the most murderous and repressive in history!

A Constitution like ours would never, NEVER have been produced in an atheistic society. In fact, God is mentioned quite prominently in the writings of the founders of this country.

It was the rise of reason in the Enlightenment that led to what became America. Christianity had 1700+ years before that to do something, and about all they managed was death and destruction: St Augustine, the Crusades, the Inquisition, Blood Libel, the African slave trade, witch burning, anti-paganism, the Reformation, Rwanda, Bosnia -- the list is endless. Even Hitler was a Christian, and even received the blessing of the Pope. The persecution and murder of Jews by Christians was sanctioned by the church until relatively recently, and the hatred and bigotry still remains.

Plus, as robert68 said, the atheist Soviet Union actually originated in strong Christian foundations -- which is why they were able to eventually succeed at replacing God with the State in the public's mind.

The fall of man happens every day, my friend. Or do you consider yourself to be sinless?

I reject the concept of sin; there is no such thing. I view it as an invention of man, used by some in an attempt to control others. Christianity has a history of declaring arbitrary things as sins or heresy or blasphemy. It was only the rise of reason and the separation of church and state that finally allowed civilization to advance.

 

[BUSHLIED]

And still historically Christians have been amongst the most murderous and repressive in history!



It was the rise of reason in the Enlightenment that led to what became America. Christianity had 1700+ years before that to do something, and about all they managed was death and destruction: St Augustine, the Crusades, the Inquisition, Blood Libel, the African slave trade, witch burning, anti-paganism, the Reformation, Rwanda, Bosnia -- the list is endless. Even Hitler was a Christian, and even received the blessing of the Pope. The persecution and murder of Jews by Christians was sanctioned by the church until relatively recently, and the hatred and bigotry still remains.

Plus, as robert68 said, the atheist Soviet Union actually originated in strong Christian foundations -- which is why they were able to eventually succeed at replacing God with the State in the public's mind.



I reject the concept of sin; there is no such thing. I view it as an invention of man, used by some in an attempt to control others. Christianity has a history of declaring arbitrary things as sins or heresy or blasphemy. It was only the rise of reason and the separation of church and state that finally allowed civilization to advance.

I completely agree with the responses here..>>Christians want to ignore the brutality perpetuated by their fake and poisonous religion. The good thing is we shouldn't have to waste our time debating these issues as our society is becoming more secular by the year...the christians are a dying breed...we are winning the culture wars because as our population becomes more and more educated...they can see through the lies and distortions.

Unfortunately what this represents is a growing gap between enlighten and educated individuals and those who have been left behind or choose to remain behind as they thump their bibles...thump away, but all you are making is noise annoying those trying to move our culture and society forward!!

Much of the problems you attribute "atheism" to you can blame the government for...

 

[AceNZ]

The fall of man happened because Adam tried to be a god by his own self and on his own terms thinking he could do so without the grace of his Source and Creator, all because of pride and selfishness. This is the spirit of Ayn Rand's 'Objectivism'. The fall was 'collectivist' because if it was not, then Adam and his descendants would have lived for eternity estranged from the source of life, in the company of the demons. Because of God's mercy, lest we all have no way to return to Him, did He allow us to fall, so that He might one day come down and show us the way back to Him and to His Kingdom. You seem to see the fall as a punishment, but it was not a punishment unto eternal death - for the Christian believes we all, the righteous and the unrighteous, will one day rise again. But rather, so as an act of mercy, so that we might not follow the eternal path of satan and the demons into eternal darkness and estrangement from the Source and Creator of life, He gave us a way out and the opportunity to follow Him willfully and in truth.

Wow, it's been a while since I recall reading a paragraph this long where I disagreed so strongly with nearly every word. It truly feels like you live in a different universe than me.

 

[Theocrat]

There Are Other Factors to Consider

I completely agree with the responses here..>>Christians want to ignore the brutality perpetuated by their fake and poisonous religion. The good thing is we shouldn't have to waste our time debating these issues are our society is becoming more secular by the year...the christians are a dying breed...

I don't think it's the case that Christians are a dying breed. It's more so that Christians are continuing to escape from civil realms of society (such as politics) because some Christians relegate any civic duty as "secular" or "temporal, therefore, irrelevant in comparison to eternal, spiritual matters." Ultimately, I see it as Christians having a false dichotomy about the world in addition to poor eschatology.

The interesting point you've brought out is that our society is becoming more secular year by year. I actually agree with that. And look all around us and see what secularism is doing to our society. We definitely are not becoming a better society as a result of a secular influence on life. The deterioration of the rule of law in government, the indoctrination we find in education, and the arbitrary lies from the mainstream media all testify that secularism is destroying our culture because it has a quintessential flaw: man can be god.

 

[TER]

And still historically Christians have been amongst the most murderous and repressive in history!

This is a sad fact, on account of the sinfulness of man (something you deny exists). Another sad fact is that historically THE MOST murderous and repressive in history have been atheistic.

 

[TER]

Wow, it's been a while since I recall reading a paragraph this long where I disagreed so strongly with nearly every word. It truly feels like you live in a different universe than me.

You are free to disagree. I won't force you. You seem to have already made up your 'objective' mind.

 

[specialK]

I classify myself as both an atheist and naturalistic pantheist. To
me, belief in an anthropomorphic god is the height of human arrogance.

 

[TER]

we are winning the culture wars

yes, you are, to the delight of satan

Unfortunately what this represents is a growing gap between enlighten and educated individuals and those who have been left behind or choose to remain behind as they thump their bibles...thump away, but all you are making is noise annoying those trying to move our culture and society forward!!

lol Good luck!

 

[heavenlyboy34]

This is a sad fact, on account of the sinfulness of man (something you deny exists). A sadder fact is that historically THE MOST murderous and repressive in history have been atheistic.

I agree. The inherent godlessnessness, atheism, and inhumanity of socialism, communism, and fascism in the 20th century resulted in millions of lives lost or shattered. (the Black Book of Communism is a great read about this, btw)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Unfortunately what this represents is a growing gap between enlighten and educated individuals and those who have been left behind or choose to remain behind as they thump their bibles...thump away, but all you are making is noise annoying those trying to move our culture and society forward!!

What do you feel gives you the right to move "society" in whatever direction you deem best? Why can't you let people be free to chose?