Are You Ready to Pay $50 for a 100-Watt Bulb?

[fisharmor]

In this case, yes. You used to be able to use uninsulated wires in your house (knob and tube), after enough fires insulated wires became mandatory, and I'm sure there was resistance at the time with the same arguments.
You used to be able to use lead paint and plumbing, perhaps you want to go back to those days too?

Occasionally the government does something correct, and this is one of those times.
eb

You didn't finish your homework.
There is no federal electric code.
In many localities, there is no local electric code.
In many more localities, they simply adopt the national electric code.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code

The national electric code is developed by the National Fire Protection Association, which is a private non-profit devoted to fire safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Fire_Protection_Association

The national electric code is approved by ANSI, another private non-profit which is devoted to voluntary consensus standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_National_Standards_Institute

So thanks for bringing up some of my favorite examples of why we don't need your beloved government to get along.
No, the state isn't doing this right, it never does anything correct.
The market ****WAS**** taking care of the situation, because the price of CFLs dropped, and people naturally saw a long-lived alternative that saved on the bills, too. It made economic sense.
It was happening. But you jackasses had to force it. We don't appreciate it, especially since it was not necessary in any sense.
You are the problem, sir, not the solution.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Smart meters tell how much total power you are using when. It cannot tell what you are using that energy on.

Already answered.

I hope you're not trying to tell me that the "smart meter" does not communicate with the new "smart appliances" to get a precise metric of usage in your home.

Anything left over from that usage, can be determined to be de facto, used by lighting. As I already posted, cops have raided homes many times, just on that pretext.

Listen, all you technophiles and nit pickers, I've already been down this road, you were same people telling me 15 years ago that, "oh stop, you're fear mongering, cel phones will never be able to track your position, listen without being turned on, and log your locations."

I ought to pull up some of my old posts from back around 1995 or so on that subject. I may still have them saved somewhere.

And we know how that worked out.

100 watt equivelent bulbs are available now for just a few dollars and in all likelyhood the LED ones will come down in cost over time. Nobody is or will be forced to buy $50 lightbulbs.

That is not the frippin' point.

The point is that there are applications that I use, not the least of which is egg warming and getting hens to lay, that only incandescent bulbs will work for.

Not to mention that in some applications, they just look nicer and light better.

 

[Razmear]

But you jackasses had to force it. We don't appreciate it, especially since it was not necessary in any sense.
You are the problem, sir, not the solution.

Firstly, I didn't force anything. This was a Bush Administration approved policy from 2007 that is scheduled to go into effect in 2012.

Do I agree with doing away with incandescent lights, yes, because they are just about the least efficient method to produce light available. It was a revolutionary idea in the 1800's, but they are now obsolete.
All these yahoo's rant about energy independence, and how we have to blow up other countries to secure our 'national interests', but then want to cling onto these obsolete energy wasting light bulbs to show how much freedom of choice the American public has.
It's a BS issue, go ahead and ban the things, and if you want to hoard black market light bulbs, or use reptile lights in your reading lamp more power to ya, jackass.

 

[Anti Federalist]

In this case, yes. You used to be able to use uninsulated wires in your house (knob and tube), after enough fires insulated wires became mandatory, and I'm sure there was resistance at the time with the same arguments.
You used to be able to use lead paint and plumbing, perhaps you want to go back to those days too?

Occasionally the government does something correct, and this is one of those times.
eb

Companies are staring to remove HFCS from drinks and food products.

There has been no law to mandate that, just customer pressure.

Don't you think that lead paint would have gone the way of the dodo for the same reasons?

 

[Kelly.]

Already answered.

I hope you're not trying to tell me that the "smart meter" does not communicate with the new "smart appliances" to get a precise metric of usage in your home.

Anything left over from that usage, can be determined to be de facto, used by lighting. As I already posted, cops have raided homes many times, just on that pretext.

Listen, all you technophiles and nit pickers, I've already been down this road, you were same people telling me 15 years ago that, "oh stop, you're fear mongering, cel phones will never be able to track your position, listen without being turned on, and log your locations."

I ought to pull up some of my old posts from back around 1995 or so on that subject. I may still have them saved somewhere.

And we know how that worked out.



That is not the frippin' point.

The point is that there are applications that I use, not the least of which is egg warming and getting hens to lay, that only incandescent bulbs will work for.

Not to mention that in some applications, they just look nicer and light better.

are you comparing an incandescent bulb with GPS?

or are you saying that soon every electronic device in my house will be able to communicate with my yet to be installed smart grid meter?

should the govt be allowed to ban incandescent bulbs, no.
is using an incandescent bulb going to get you in trouble, no.

fyi - an incandescent bulb is a shitty light bulb, it makes a much better heater

 

[Anti Federalist]

Firstly, I didn't force anything. This was a Bush Administration approved policy from 2007 that is scheduled to go into effect in 2012.

Do I agree with doing away with incandescent lights, yes, because they are just about the least efficient method to produce light available. It was a revolutionary idea in the 1800's, but they are now obsolete.
All these yahoo's rant about energy independence, and how we have to blow up other countries to secure our 'national interests', but then want to cling onto these obsolete energy wasting light bulbs to show how much freedom of choice the American public has.
It's a BS issue, go ahead and ban the things, and if you want to hoard black market light bulbs, or use reptile lights in your reading lamp more power to ya, jackass.

It's not BS issue, it cuts right to the core of it all.

Point out where in the Constitution the fedgov has any authority to do this.

And if you can, if you can justify this, then you have no argument left: Obamacare, gun prohibition, drug prohibition, mileage standards, the list is endless,...all of it is now legitimate.

 

[Razmear]

The point is that there are applications that I use, not the least of which is egg warming and getting hens to lay, that only incandescent bulbs will work for.

At least you have a legitimate need for a heat producing light bulb.
Check this: http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html
for a list of exemptions. I'll need replacement bulbs for my fish tank at some point as well.

eb

 

[Anti Federalist]

are you comparing an incandescent bulb with GPS?

or are you saying that soon every electronic device in my house will be able to communicate with my yet to be installed smart gird meter?

should the govt be allowed to ban incandescent bulbs, no.
is using an incandescent bulb going to get you in trouble, no.

fyi - an incandescent bulb is a shitty light bulb, it makes a much better heater

No, what I am saying is that the new smart meters, (whether you have one or not right this second is moot, they are being rolled out nationwide) can communicate wirelessly with the new "smart applainaces".

That between the two, a matrix of power usage can be deduced that will indicate if there is an "abnormal" usage in the home.

I am saying that smart meters will be tied into the police grid, and will be monitored for these "abnormal" usages. This isn't paranoid fantasy, it's already being done.

As it stands right now, usage of incandescents is not prohibited, just their sale. Look for that to change after it becomes clear that hoarders have saved millions of bulbs.

When it does, you can bet your ass that Officer Friendly will pay you a visit, either because you've got a pot grow going, or are using verboten electrical lighting.

 

[Anti Federalist]

At least you have a legitimate need for a heat producing light bulb.
Check this: http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html
for a list of exemptions. I'll need replacement bulbs for my fish tank at some point as well.

eb

If I had to provide a "legitimate need" to government to speak, or worship or keep a gun, you would be (I hope) livid.

 

[puppetmaster]

I have plenty of Oil Lamps.
Just need a supply of Whale Oil.

Great. I have a huge supply of whales......wow I love free market economics!

 

[Razmear]

It's not BS issue, it cuts right to the core of it all.

Point out where in the Constitution the fedgov has any authority to do this.

And if you can, if you can justify this, then you have no argument left: Obamacare, gun prohibition, drug prohibition, mileage standards, the list is endless,...all of it is now legitimate.

Not true.
Religion, gun ownership, etc are personal property issues. You do not own the power grid.
Electricity is a shared resource. If your community is having a drought, they will put in water bans saying you can't waste water by running your sprinklers all day because the greenness of your lawn is not as important as other people on the same closed system having enough water to flush their toilets.
In the same way, you using a light source that has a 3% efficiency rating is a drain on others using the same shared resource when there are far more efficient methods available.
btw, your eggs need a heat source to hatch, not a light source (I've never seen light coming out a chicken's ass). Incandescent bulbs are a great source of heat, which is why they are so inefficient as a source of illumination.

 

[Dr.3D]

Not true.
Religion, gun ownership, etc are personal property issues. You do not own the power grid.
Electricity is a shared resource. If your community is having a drought, they will put in water bans saying you can't waste water by running your sprinklers all day because the greenness of your lawn is not as important as other people on the same closed system having enough water to flush their toilets.
In the same way, you using a light source that has a 3% efficiency rating is a drain on others using the same shared resource when there are far more efficient methods available.
btw, your eggs need a heat source to hatch, not a light source (I've never seen light coming out a chicken's ass). Incandescent bulbs are a great source of heat, which is why they are so inefficient as a source of illumination.

Is fuel a shared resource too?
If it is, I suspect we will have government telling us what kind of automobiles we will drive as well. I suspect it would be along the lines of a very small vehicle that uses much less fuel than the big ones do. Sure, they flatten out a lot more when pinched between two huge trucks, but it's for the greater good.

We need government to help us manage our limited resources. The price of those resources won't have anything to do with how much of them people use.

Bull shit.... if it gets expensive enough, people will naturally find ways to use less of it.

 

[fisharmor]

Not true.
Religion, gun ownership, etc are personal property issues. You do not own the power grid.
Electricity is a shared resource. If your community is having a drought, they will put in water bans saying you can't waste water by running your sprinklers all day because the greenness of your lawn is not as important as other people on the same closed system having enough water to flush their toilets.
In the same way, you using a light source that has a 3% efficiency rating is a drain on others using the same shared resource when there are far more efficient methods available.
btw, your eggs need a heat source to hatch, not a light source (I've never seen light coming out a chicken's ass). Incandescent bulbs are a great source of heat, which is why they are so inefficient as a source of illumination.

Yes, public resources. We get it, you're a statist. You don't need to keep driving the point home.
In a drought, if water wasn't a public resource, the price would go up. Then people would need to make decisions about whether to water their grass. Most would choose to water themselves before their grass. This is basic price mechanism.
If electricity was scarce (note, again, that this tends to happen in places with the greatest state control over the grid) then in a free market the same thing would happen.
Unless, of course, the whole thing isn't run privately at all, and suffers from the typical state boondoggles, and has trouble meeting consumer demand. Then it makes perfect sense to ban an entire technology because we're too stupid to handle our own finances.

Yes, you forced us to do this because you're actively choosing not only to support the state-worshippers who put this in place, you're trying to convince us that they were right to do it.
You are the public mandate. You are the force. You are killing a market prematurely, and making it more difficult for us to get things that we need.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Not true.
Religion, gun ownership, etc are personal property issues. You do not own the power grid.

Religious decisions, weapons decisions all impact the "health care grid".

You do not own the "health care grid".

Therefore I have right to regulate anything you do that will affect my cost in the "health care grid".

Electricity is a shared resource. If your community is having a drought, they will put in water bans saying you can't waste water by running your sprinklers all day because the greenness of your lawn is not as important as other people on the same closed system having enough water to flush their toilets.

What if told you that I spent $30,000 last year to install a full solar/wind/battery inverter system in my home, and am, for all intents and purposes, "off the grid".

Just as I am for water. I own the mineral and water rights below my property, I have own well, with my own pump, that I pay for.

Regardless, if it's "shared resource" and not a commodity, how is it that anybody can claim ownership of it?

In the same way, you using a light source that has a 3% efficiency rating is a drain on others using the same shared resource when there are far more efficient methods available.

You live down south by any chance?

You use ten times as much electricity just keeping your house at a tolerable temperature as I would running a few incandescent bulbs.

You have no right to hog that resource.

Get a fan.

btw, your eggs need a heat source to hatch, not a light source (I've never seen light coming out a chicken's ass). Incandescent bulbs are a great source of heat, which is why they are so inefficient as a source of illumination.

Hens need 16 hours of light a day or they stop laying.

In my experience, the light given off by CFLs and LEDs (yes, I've tried them) do not "trick" the hens into thinking they are receiving natural light, and they stop laying.

 

[Kelly.]

No, what I am saying is that the new smart meters, (whether you have one or not right this second is moot, they are being rolled out nationwide) can communicate wirelessly with the new "smart applainaces".

That between the two, a matrix of power usage can be deduced that will indicate if there is an "abnormal" usage in the home.

I am saying that smart meters will be tied into the police grid, and will be monitored for these "abnormal" usages. This isn't paranoid fantasy, it's already being done.

As it stands right now, usage of incandescents is not prohibited, just their sale. Look for that to change after it becomes clear that hoarders have saved millions of bulbs.

When it does, you can bet your ass that Officer Friendly will pay you a visit, either because you've got a pot grow going, or are using verboten electrical lighting.

 

[specsaregood]

or are you saying that soon every electronic device in my house will be able to communicate with my yet to be installed smart grid meter?

Yes, of course. It is only a matter of time. It's not exactly like it is hard to do -- I already run most of my internal computer network over the electrical lines in my house. It will be sold as a function of energy saving.

 

[Dr.3D]

Nobody should care if somebody wants to light their rooms with the heating elements out of toasters. If they pay the electric bill, it's their electricity to use as they please.

Edit:

If there is a shortage of electricity, the price will go up to regulate it's use. As the price has gone up, the utility builds more infrastructure to increase the amount of electricity it can supply and that balances the system. Nothing needs to be controlled or regulated, the entire system is organic.

 

[axiomata]

How much sugar I put on my coffee affects the sugar grid. The electrical grid you speak of is also known as a market by the less socialist.

 

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

the part about a smart grid being able to tell if you have a incandescent bulb vs another device consuming 100w,
the part about getting a visit because of it.

i agree with what is being said in principle [govt shouldnt be outlawing bulbs], but to say that someone can tell that you are using a specific bulb via your homes [bulk] energy meter, and the subsequent visits from a officer, is imo a huge stretch.

Tell that to a friend of mine who recently had the elctric company inform the local police that he was using multiple plant grow lights in his house. They knew this because of the amount of power being pulled at certain times of the day. The police kicked in his door and tore his house apart and after a couple hours of searching they came to the conclusion that he was a grower or prize winning Orchids...which is what they told him when they kicked in his door.

 

[specsaregood]

Tell that to a friend of mine who recently had the elctric company inform the local police that he was using multiple plant grow lights in his house. They knew this because of the amount of power being pulled at certain times of the day. The police kicked in his door and tore his house apart and after a couple hours of searching they came to the conclusion that he was a grower or prize winning Orchids...which is what they told him when they kicked in his door.

Did they get documentation to that affect: ie: the electric company informing the police? or did they just assume.
Because it might have been due to the police driving around with those FLIR detectors -- which is usually illegal.