Are You Ready to Pay $50 for a 100-Watt Bulb?

[pcosmar]

Any bets on the progression, Based on past history.

Discouraged> Banned> Illegal> Prosecuted.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Any bets on the progression, Based on past history.

Discouraged> Banned> Illegal> Prosecuted.

Shit, Pete, I wouldn't take that bet with odds.

 

[The Moravian]

It doesn't matter whether the technology exists now or not. What matters is the principle of liberty. If we accept a ban on owning something, certainly something as innocuous as a light bulb, we give up on liberty. At that point, it's just a matter of time and technology until we lose liberty, even more than we've lost so far.

 

[Krugerrand]

Not true.
Religion, gun ownership, etc are personal property issues. You do not own the power grid.
Electricity is a shared resource. If your community is having a drought, they will put in water bans saying you can't waste water by running your sprinklers all day because the greenness of your lawn is not as important as other people on the same closed system having enough water to flush their toilets.
In the same way, you using a light source that has a 3% efficiency rating is a drain on others using the same shared resource when there are far more efficient methods available.
btw, your eggs need a heat source to hatch, not a light source (I've never seen light coming out a chicken's ass). Incandescent bulbs are a great source of heat, which is why they are so inefficient as a source of illumination.

There's a frequently quoted article on either Mises or LewRockwell that explains how rationing (I don't remember if it was gas or water) does not work as efficiently as letting the free market control things - even in shortages. I've looked ... I can't find it. Anybody have it bookmarked?

 

[oyarde]

Perhaps 100 Watt incandescent light bulbs could be a new currency. (If only they weren't so fragile.)

Yeah , in my neck of the woods I expect the new currency to be 12 gauge shells ..

 

[oyarde]

Candles and oil lamps? Gee, too bad the city where I live made them illegal a few years back with an "open flame law", along with kerosene heaters and being able to solder on your plumbing or air conditioning systems. And of course a few years before that, it became a "housing code" violation to not have utility service.

Assholes , what is the penalty for candles & oil lamps ??

 

[oyarde]

Two Words:

No bans.

Agreed , screw 'em !

 

[Kelly.]

Well, that was a productive conversation...

until you can prove to me that a smart gird meter can tell the difference between a incandescent 100w bulb and any other 100w load, i still stand by my original statement.
until you can prove that someone will show up at your house for using a incandescent bulb, i stand by my original statement,
which was, the things you were stating as fact, are not fact.

fyi - i have lived in a city with smart gird meters. that same city has more dispensaries then starbucks, so they also know a bit about indoor grows.
to my knowledge no one that grows has been arrested / hassled due to using to much electricity and paying for it (stealing electricity is different)

 

[Kelly.]

Trouble is, your new "smart meter" that electric utilities all across the country are installing, can detect the load of an incadescent bulb on your house grid.

Thus earning you a visit from Officer Friendly and his buddies:

ok, line by line:
your new "smart meter" that electric utilities all across the country are installing
~~ these are not being installed all across the country. they are in a few select cities.

can detect the load of an incadescent bulb on your house grid.
~~wrong, they can detect an additional 100w load in your house, they can not tell where that load is coming from. that is unless they can monitor every circuit individually, while at the same time being able to detect the different devices on that circuit. again not true.

Thus earning you a visit from Officer Friendly and his buddies:
~~ this assumes the previous statement is true, which it is not. i have yet to hear of someone getting a visit for using a 100w incandescent bulb, as you suggest.

im not arguing that government should/shouldnt outlaw the bulbs, i agree they shouldnt.
but when you say things like the above, as if they are fact, you are spreading information that is wrong.
it amazes me that other people hear will read this and just let it fly knowing it is wrong.

 

[Krugerrand]

i have yet to hear of someone getting a visit for using a 100w incandescent bulb

I'm sure it was once said:

I have yet to hear of someone getting a visit for selling raw milk.

I have yet to hear of someone getting a visit for paying somebody in current US Mint gold coin.

I have yet to hear of someone getting a visit for what plants they grow in their basement.

I have yet to hear of someone getting a visit for how they medicate their child.

 

[Kelly.]

until it becomes true, it is untrue, which is the point i was making.

 

[Dr.3D]

Assholes , what is the penalty for candles & oil lamps ??

"No soup for you!"

 

[pcosmar]

ok, line by line:

I live in a very rural area. Not in or near a city, On a electric C0-Op. They installed the "smart meters" a couple years ago.

The bulbs in question have not been Outlawed yet. But they are being discouraged and discontinued.
It is not unreasonable to expect them to be outlawed soon.

This thread is looking at the likely possibilities of upcoming laws and their likely enforcement. Based on past experience with laws and their enforcement.

 

[Kelly.]

I live in a very rural area. Not in or near a city, On a electric C0-Op. They installed the "smart meters" a couple years ago.

The bulbs in question have not been Outlawed yet. But they are being discouraged and discontinued.
It is not unreasonable to expect them to be outlawed soon.

This thread is looking at the likely possibilities of upcoming laws and their likely enforcement. Based on past experience with laws and their enforcement.

im only referring to AF's specific post, where he stated something as fact, when it was not.

do you believe that:
1 - incandescent bulbs will be made illegal (not just hard to get, but it will be a crime to posses one)
2 - the smart meter will be able to tell you are specifically using a 100w incandescent bulb, vs a different 100w load
3 - some authority will show up at your house because you are using a 100w incandescent bulb (after #1 and #2 happen)

it was said as fact, when it is not.

we can keep arguing about this portion of it, or we can drop it as it is pretty obvious that it isnt fact.

 

[pcosmar]

im only referring to AF's specific post, where he stated something as fact, when it was not.



it was said as fact, when it is not.

we can keep arguing about this portion of it, or we can drop it as it is pretty obvious that it isnt fact.

I did not see any such posted as present fact.
I saw it posted as a likelihood in the near future.

And very likely unless it is stopped.

 

[jmdrake]

No- that isn't your only choice (and no, I was not refering to armed force either but a lack of choice). Today you can get as six pack of 100w equivelent CFL lights for under $14. http://www.amazon.com/Watt-Energy-Smart-CFL-Replacement/dp/B000UYF80S That is a bit over $2 a piece.

And they SUCK! When we built our new house I was all CFL[1] crazy. It took me a while to be honest with myself and realize that compact fluorescents were half as bright. Using a dimmer switch on an incandescent bulb might yield similar energy savings. Plus the CFLs contain mercury. How many people ignore the warnings and just throw these toxic bulbs into the trash? And lastly, if the incandescents are being banned then we are being forced to buy this new crap like it or not. If the "energy saving" bulbs become bright enough, cheap enough, and disposable in a regular trash can and/or recycle bin like incandescents then the market will support them without government interference. Who likes to change light bulbs if they don't have to? (No pun intended).

[1]Just noticed the Campaign For Liberty has the same initials.

 

[Anti Federalist]

ok, line by line:
your new "smart meter" that electric utilities all across the country are installing
~~ these are not being installed all across the country. they are in a few select cities.

Untrue:

A million smart grid meters in SoCal.

http://www.smartgridnews.com/artman...-One-Million-Smart-Meters-Installed-2667.html

Two million mark last year:

Secretary Chu Announces Two Million Smart Grid Meters Installed Nationwide (this is from last year)

http://www.energy.gov/9433.htm

Smart meters to be installed in every Vermont home.

http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/90898/

Fed officials pressing Obama to install 50 million smart meters by 2015.

http://www.intelligentutility.com/article/11/04/americas-direction-smart-grid

can detect the load of an incadescent bulb on your house grid.
~~wrong, they can detect an additional 100w load in your house, they can not tell where that load is coming from. that is unless they can monitor every circuit individually, while at the same time being able to detect the different devices on that circuit. again not true.

Already proved true, in multiple posts in this thread. That is precisely what the new whole house monitors can do, track usage right down to the circuit and precisely what kind of load is on it. I have such a system on the vessel I run.

Thus earning you a visit from Officer Friendly and his buddies:
~~ this assumes the previous statement is true, which it is not. i have yet to hear of someone getting a visit for using a 100w incandescent bulb, as you suggest.

The previous statements are true. Now, how long it will take before it gets to the point of Officer Friendly kicking your door in because of "contraband electrical products" on the grid, is up for debate. I gave no timeframe in my OP. However, I'll be willing to cede the point that it is likely that will earn a visit from Officer Friendly at some unknown point in the future.

To say it will never happen is just silly, even though it seems outlandish now.

But if I had told you 15 years ago that in order to fly a naked picture would have to be taken of you, or submit to an intrusive prison type hand search, you'd have said I was nuts as well.

 

[Anti Federalist]

this thread screams to me that I am no longer a fit for these forums.

those with the most rep I have the least respect for.

so never mind me people. I'm slowly backing away towards the door.

Huh, whaddya know? I guess I really did run him off, that was his last post.

Pity, he couldn't read this thread and this post from a RPF member who is actually in the business of smart meter technology.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?303388-Smart-Meters-Nightmare-or-Boon

Sure. As I said in my post, there are real serious implications with these things. I apologize for the length of my posts, but I've been working on this stuff for the last few years in great detail. Act 129 in PA has forced us to implement a program that we know is not cost-effective.

In my 2nd reason, I touched on the "surveillance" capabilities. But let me get more in depth. These meters measure how much electricity you are using in intervals as small as 5 minutes. (usually it's 15-30, but depending on the meter can be as low as 5) This usage will be sent back to the power company on a regular basis (our plan calls for each hour). These intervals will be sent in many ways. Your meter may have a cell phone chip, it may send it over the power line, it may go over the phone line (rare) or it may go through "meter hops". That's when your interval is sent to another meter, then another, then another, until it gets to a central collection hub. This is a self-healing network so even when something interferes with the transmission, your data will find another way to report in. We will still lose some intervals, but our MDMS (meter data management system) will be able to calculate typical usage for any interval for any home. We will be able to estimate any missed intervals based upon typical usage, time of day, temperature, neighbors' usage, and other variables. If your usage for any interval is atypical, it will send us an alarm. We'll be getting tons of alarms so our system will filter out some and only send us the really important ones to examine. That's scary enough, but it gets worse.

Smart meters are also design to be linked up to In-Home Devices and Programmable Controllable Thermostats (IHD's and PCT's). These will be for your convenice, of course. With the IHD, you will be able to see how much power you're using at any given moment and the cost of each kWh. That way you can adjust your usage for off-peak periods and save money. We can also send you messages through your IHD. (It will be on the wall inside your home - yeah, I know!) The PCT's are even more scary. You can hook up appliances (AC, water heater, refrigerator, etc.) and during times of peak periods, you can allow us to turn down these devices for you even if you're not home.

So what does this mean? Your power company will have complete knowledge of everyone's typical usage. Any anomalies will be flagged for investigation. We will also have the capability to actually adjust the usage of our customers. The thing that really makes this scary is that, while this will help us conduct our business, we know it costs too much to be worth it. So what's the real reason why the government is making us do it? Once this system is in place and functional, I can easily foresee them taking over. Act 129 has provisions in the law that if we don't meet certain energy reduction thresholds, then the government can come in to tell us how to run it. And once they have access to our systems for one purpose, you know they'll utilize it for others.

Smart meters are bad. Really, really bad. I didn't mean to have my post leave the opposite impression. It's the privacy concerns that are the problem, though, just not the health concerns. I've done quite a bit of studying on everything I've seen shows them to be safe to you health. They are not safe to your freedom though.

 

[amonasro]

No one's going to come knocking down doors for using incandescent bulbs. Get a grip. People still use dimmers.

That said I still prefer incandescent bulbs in a number of applications, most notably for reading and on my piano. Halogens are nice and bright too, but generate more heat.

FYI professional orchestras still use use incandescent music stand lights. Why? Less possibility of error. CFLs dim over time, incandescents don't.

 

[Anti Federalist]

No one's going to come knocking down doors for using incandescent bulbs. Get a grip. People still use dimmers.

No one's going to come knocking down doors for using raw milk. Get a grip. People still drink milkshakes.