Are you going to switch to Libertarian after the elections, or stay Republican?

[Menthol Patch]

I used to be a Libertarian. Now I am a Libertarian, but not a member of the Libertarian Party.

 

[seeker1]

Where do you see the proof of this statement?

Ron stays in the Republican party because he knows third parties are not viable and he can get more done from the inside. And also, because he is a Republican. It's the party that went astray.

This is one purpose of the Revolution. To force change from within. If people just abandon the fight after this one election, what good will it have done?

I just want you to show me the influence on the Republican Party Ron Paul has had.

Show me the coalitions. Show me the bills passed. Show me anything that resembles that he has been a force to change the Republican Party.

Look at the way the GOP treats one of its own.

It's a fantasy.

Ron Paul supports the Constitution. He is a lone voice in the wilderness. While Ron Paul may be a Republican, he is the only Constitutionalist running and that is why I support him.

There is no changing the Republicrat Party.

 

[Eponym_mi]

Have you been to the Republican Executive Committee meeting in your county?

Yeah...they think we're a cult. Seriously, little has changed....look at the polls! Theocrats, corporatists, and facsists are well represented. Any movement toward libertarian principles will be very temporary (this election cycle only). These groups will only give lip service to keep people like me/us from voting for anyone else other than the Republican they choose.

 

[Lucille]

I just want you to show me the influence on the Republican Party Ron Paul has had.

Show me the coalitions. Show me the bills passed. Show me anything that resembles that he has been a force to change the Republican Party.

Look at the way the GOP treats one of its own.

It's a fantasy.

Ron Paul supports the Constitution. He is a lone voice in the wilderness. While Ron Paul may be a Republican, he is the only Constitutionalist running and that is why I support him.

There is no changing the Republicrat Party.

No one said it was going to happen over night, or that it would be easy.

Paul hasn't given up. Why do you want to?

 

[seeker1]

You are absolutely right!

Yeah...they think we're a cult. Seriously, little has changed....look at the polls! Theocrats, corporatists, and facsists are well represented. Any movement toward libertarian principles will be very temporary (this election cycle only). These groups will only give lip service to keep people like me/us from voting for anyone else other than the Republican they choose.

That's the truth of this situation, not the fairy tale version.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[raystone]

we are already gaining back the Republican party....in our county GOP party, a senior long time GOP party leader became a Ron Paul fan, sees he is the only real Republican. And, of course, he's getting a lot of company from local RP fans new to the county GOP, and the other young members. The county GOP straw poll was one of hundreds across the country where he took 1st or 2nd.

the GOP is weak and fallible, the limited government/low taxes base is still there. They just need to be persuaded we shouldn't use moral authority as a basis for interventionism

 

[seeker1]

What have I given up?

No one said it was going to happen over night, or that it would be easy.

Paul hasn't given up. Why do you want to?

You mean on the Republicrat party?

I didn't sign on to support the party. I am supporting the man and his principles. Like I have for the last six elections. At no time did Ron Paul suggest I become a Republicrat. He simply says what his platform is, used to be the Republican platform, but that it isn't anymore.

I support the man, the movement, but not the party.

 

[John P Slevin]

Paul is very, very wrong

No, we're not. The game is completely stacked against a third party, as Dr. Paul has explained repeatedly. (As an aside, how do we expect other people to believe him, if we don't believe him ourselves?) At the LOCAL level, the Republican party is totally demoralized, and guess WHO elects the state and national leadership of the party?

If we're REALLY interested in a revolution, we can take over the party by the 2010 elections. If most of us are Sunshine Soldiers and Summer Patriots who want to sit behind a keyboard and whine, the rest of us will have to take our country back by exercising the Second Amendment.

And Dr. Paul's logic bears close examination.

Since Republicans and Democrats make all those ballot access and campaign finance laws which restrict the rights of Americans who opt to be active in third parties, Dr. Paul suggests sticking with the corrupt people to make things better because you can't do it as an honest outsider.

There is no defense of Dr. Paul's repeated statements that since the deck is stacked against third parties one shouldn't bother with 'em. There is a great deal to question about anyone thinking they can reform the Republican Party. Ask Dr. Paul how much success he's had in over 30 years trying to bring about smaller, less intrusive government and in reforming the Republican Party from within...the correct answer is ZERO.

 

[Lucille]

That's the truth of this situation, not the fairy tale version.

Thanks for posting this.

Negative and self-defeating much?

Just get out now if the only option you see after the election is to go to the corner and suck on your binky and cry.

I would never abandon the movement. NEVER. It's just getting started.

Maybe the establishment was right about the bulk of Ron's supporters. A bunch of liberals, and not in the classic sense.

 

[seeker1]

Good strategy...

Negative and self-defeating much?

Just get out now if the only option you see after the election is to go to the corner and suck on your binky and cry.

I would never abandon the movement. NEVER. It's just getting started.

Maybe the establishment was right about the bulk of Ron's supporters. A bunch of liberals, and not in the classic sense.

if you're trying to prove my point.

You can't reason. So you resort to name calling. You'll go far as a republicrat loyalist.

Thanks for the conversation, but I'll be moving on now. Good luck with your recruiting.

 

[John P Slevin]

encourage Paul

Negative and self-defeating much?

Just get out now if the only option you see after the election is to go to the corner and suck on your binky and cry.

I would never abandon the movement. NEVER. It's just getting started.

Maybe the establishment was right about the bulk of Ron's supporters. A bunch of liberals, and not in the classic sense.

This movement is NOT just getting started. Ron Paul has brought alot of new people into a movement which has been going for decades.

It is mistaken to think the thing just started as it is mistaken to think any one of us should adopt the Republican Party just because Ron Paul happens to be one...

What's needed very definitely is for energetic, motivated supporters to encourage Ron Paul to continue the fight, outside the Republican Party if necessary.

Don't tarry, just keep on fighting...and supporters must also advise him not to spend any more time with crooks, liars and thieves...sure, he's still in congress, where thieves are thick, but why ask for more of the same by sticking with the irredeemably corrupt Republican Party?

 

[Lucille]

we are already gaining back the Republican party....in our county GOP party, a senior long time GOP party leader became a Ron Paul fan, sees he is the only real Republican. And, of course, he's getting a lot of company from local RP fans new to the county GOP, and the other young members. The county GOP straw poll was one of hundreds across the country where he took 1st or 2nd.

the GOP is weak and fallible, the limited government/low taxes base is still there. They just need to be persuaded we shouldn't use moral authority as a basis for interventionism

Well said.

There is no way "National Greatness Conservatism" can remain viable. First, they cannot afford it. Second, they're not much different than the Democrats. (When you get right down to it, they're JFK Democrats.)

We need to reach out to the defcons, and convince them that a strong defense is far more effective than a weak offense. The Bush Doctrine is a losing battle.

We need to reach out to the socons, and convince them that big-government is not the way to help people, because big-government only makes things worse.

We need to reach out to the ficons (libertarian and business factions) of the party, that has been leaving the Republican party since 2000, and draw them back into the fold.

We need to reach out to all the new Republican voters, both young and old, that Paul has garnered, and convince them to stick with us.

We need to work together, not scatter and give up.

Ron Paul is the Barry Goldwater of our time. Do not abandon the movement. Stay in the Republican Party, where Paul is. It's your party, too. It's time to take it back.

 

[Lucille]

if you're trying to prove my point.

You can't reason. So you resort to name calling. You'll go far as a republicrat loyalist.

Thanks for the conversation, but I'll be moving on now. Good luck with your recruiting.

I offered you plenty of reason. Third parties aren't viable, change the party from within, don't give up.

WWRPD? Quit?

 

[Eponym_mi]

This is my take on where RP supporters probably fall vs neocon republicans. The neocons are red, have control of the Republican party...and they're not going to change.

 

[John P Slevin]

name one thing

Ron stays in the Republican party because he knows third parties are not viable and he can get more done from the inside.

Now, quick, name ONE thing Ron Paul has got done in the Republican Party...quick now, JUST ONE THING.

 

[Lucille]

The Revolution: A Manifesto

The Goldwater Republicans didn't abandon the Republican party those many years ago like so many here want to. All the defeatists around here are depressing.

Maybe you'll come around after you've read Paul's new book.

The Revolution: A Manifesto
Book Description

This much is true: you have been lied to, robbed and used by your own government-the people you elected into office and the people you should be able to trust...


In a nation thirsty for change, THE REVOLUTION is Ron Paul's call to arms. Moving from topic to topic at a quick pace, whittling everything down to its bare essentials, Paul tackles everything facing us today: the false choices in American politics, foreign policy as it was laid out by the founding fathers, how we can achieve economic freedom, how we should view abortion, civil liberties and personal responsibility, and what role the government is supposed to play in our lives.

As Barry Goldwater defined conservatism in the 60s, Ron Paul redefines it for the 21st century with THE REVOLUTION.

 

[John P Slevin]

again you are wrong

The Goldwater Republicans didn't abandon the Republican party those many years ago like so many here want to. All the defeatists around here are depressing.

Maybe you'll come around after you've read Paul's new book.

No they didn't abandon the Republican Party. First, after the '64 defeat of Goldwater, the Goldwater loyalists were purged from the Republican Party.

Some slunk back, others helped to found the modern Libertarian Party.

Those who slunk back into the Republican Party got to see Ronald Reagan elected president, as their standard bearer.

Then, he proceeded to outspend all other administrations in the history of this nation COMBINED. Ronald Reagan, heir to the Goldwater Revolution, spent more than all other administrations COMBINED.

 

[seeker1]

Facts are stubborn things.

No they didn't abandon the Republican Party. First, after the '64 defeat of Goldwater, the Goldwater loyalists were purged from the Republican Party.

Some slunk back, others helped to found the modern Libertarian Party.

Those who slunk back into the Republican Party got to see Ronald Reagan elected president, as their standard bearer.

Then, he proceeded to outspend all other administrations in the history of this nation COMBINED. Ronald Reagan, heir to the Goldwater Revolution, spent more than all other administrations COMBINED.

Facts are stubborn things.

 

[John P Slevin]

yes, facts are stubborn

Facts are stubborn things.

Facts are stubborn, let's hope facts are more stubborn than those who seek to hold up the Republican Party as an example of something good, decent, or as retaining even a shred of morality.

 

[Lucille]

"We are the Republican Party!"

No they didn't abandon the Republican Party. First, after the '64 defeat of Goldwater, the Goldwater loyalists were purged from the Republican Party.

Some slunk back, others helped to found the modern Libertarian Party.

Those who slunk back into the Republican Party got to see Ronald Reagan elected president, as their standard bearer.

Then, he proceeded to outspend all other administrations in the history of this nation COMBINED. Ronald Reagan, heir to the Goldwater Revolution, spent more than all other administrations COMBINED.

Yes, I know. I know all about Barry, Reagan and GHWB and the history of the neocons, and why the Libertarian party was formed. I've probably been voting longer than you've been alive.

You are all free to do what you want to.

I, for one, will not be FORCED out of the Party, which is exactly what the Neocons want. I will stay in the party where Paul is and fight and where I have a chance to initiate change, locally, statewide, and nationally. Like Paul.

Do what you want. Go third party, and let the Neocons have the party. Have fun getting .05% of the vote.

Like I said, maybe you'll come around once you've read the book. I'm done here because as I said, all this defeatism is depressing.

I leave you with this:

"We are the Republican Party!"