Are you for open borders?

[teacherone]

And I did not respond to YOU, did I? I responded to AED's statement about "nationalist tendencies".

must have missed this then.

Re-patriate all people who came here un-naturally or illegally.

does Ron Paul support forced re-patriation?

 

[Agorism]

does Ron Paul supporte forced re-patriation?

I think if people want to become part of our welfare state they should have to follow the correct immigration rules.

 

[Met Income]

I think if people want to become part of our welfare state they should have to follow the correct immigration rules.

I think we get more bang for the buck by focusing energy on ending the welfare state since immigrants are not the only ones who use taxpayer funded services.

 

[teacherone]

I think if people want to become part of our welfare state they should have to follow the correct immigration rules.

107 deaths in custody since 2003 (that we know about...)

anuary 10, 2010
Officials Hid Truth of Immigrant Deaths in Jail

By NINA BERNSTEIN
Silence has long shrouded the men and women who die in the nation’s immigration jails. For years, they went uncounted and unnamed in the public record. Even in 2008, when The New York Times obtained and published a federal government list of such deaths, few facts were available about who these people were and how they died.

But behind the scenes, it is now clear, the deaths had already generated thousands of pages of government documents, including scathing investigative reports that were kept under wraps, and a trail of confidential memos and BlackBerry messages that show officials working to stymie outside inquiry.

.................

As one man lay dying of head injuries suffered in a New Jersey immigration jail in 2007, for example, a spokesman for the federal agency told The Times that he could learn nothing about the case from government authorities. In fact, the records show, the spokesman had alerted those officials to the reporter’s inquiry, and they conferred at length about sending the man back to Africa to avoid embarrassing publicity.

In another case that year, investigators from the agency’s Office of Professional Responsibility concluded that unbearable, untreated pain had been a significant factor in the suicide of a 22-year-old detainee at the Bergen County Jail in New Jersey, and that the medical unit was so poorly run that other detainees were at risk.

The investigation found that jail medical personnel had falsified a medication log to show that the detainee, a Salvadoran named Nery Romero, had been given Motrin. The fake entry was easy to detect: When the drug was supposedly administered, Mr. Romero was already dead.

...............................

In February 2007, in the case of the dying African man, the immigration agency’s spokesman for the Northeast, Michael Gilhooly, rebuffed a Times reporter’s questions about the detainee, who had suffered a skull fracture at the privately run Elizabeth Detention Center in New Jersey. Mr. Gilhooly said that without a full name and alien registration number for the man, he could not check on the case.

But, records show, he had already filed a report warning top managers at the federal agency about the reporter’s interest and sharing information about the injured man, a Guinean tailor named Boubacar Bah. Mr. Bah, 52, had been left in an isolation cell without treatment for more than 13 hours before an ambulance was called.

While he lay in the hospital in a coma after emergency brain surgery, 10 agency managers in Washington and Newark conferred by telephone and e-mail about how to avoid the cost of his care and the likelihood of “increased scrutiny and/or media exposure,” according to a memo summarizing the discussion.

One option they explored was sending the dying man to Guinea, despite an e-mail message from the supervising deportation officer, who wrote, “I don’t condone removal in his present state as he has a catheter” and was unconscious. Another idea was renewing Mr. Bah’s canceled work permit in hopes of tapping into Medicaid or disability benefits.

.................................. recommended in a memo that the agency take the unusual step of paying to send the body to Guinea for burial, to prevent his widow from showing up in the United States for a funeral and drawing news coverage.

..........................

In the agency’s confidential files was a jail video showing Mr. Bah face down in the medical unit, hands cuffed behind his back, just before medical personnel sent him to a disciplinary cell. The tape shows him crying out repeatedly in his native Fulani, “Help, they are killing me!”


......................................

“Because ICE investigates itself there is no transparency and there is no reform or improvement,” Chris Crane, a vice president in the union that represents employees of the agency’s detention and removal operations, told a Congressional subcommittee on Dec. 10.

....................................

But internal documents suggest that officials were intensely concerned with controlling public information. In April 2007, Marc Raimondi, then an agency spokesman, warned top managers that a Washington Post reporter had asked about a list of 19 deaths that the civil liberties union had compiled, and about a dying man whose penile cancer had spread after going undiagnosed in detention, despite numerous medical requests for a biopsy.

“These are quite horrible medical stories,” Mr. Raimondi wrote, “and I think we’ll need to have a pretty strong response to keep this from becoming a very damaging national story that takes on long legs.”

That response was an all-out defense of detainee medical care over several months, including statistics that appeared to show that mortality rates in detention were declining, and were low compared with death rates in prisons.

Experts in detention health care called the comparison misleading; it also came to light that the agency was undercounting the number of detention deaths, as well as discharging some detainees shortly before they died. In August, litigation by the civil liberties union prompted the Obama administration to disclose that more than one in 10 immigrant detention deaths had been overlooked and omitted from a list submitted to Congress last year.

Two of those deaths had occurred in Arizona, in 2004 and 2007, at the Eloy Detention Center, run by the Corrections Corporation of America. Eloy had nine known fatalities — more than any other immigration jail under contract to the federal government. But Immigration and Customs Enforcement was still secretive. When a reporter for The Arizona Republic asked about the circumstances of those deaths, an agency spokesman told him the records were unavailable.

According to records The Times obtained in December, one Eloy detainee who died, in October 2008, was Emmanuel Owusu. An ailing 62-year-old barber who had arrived from Ghana on a student visa in 1972, he had been a legal permanent resident for 33 years, mostly in Chicago. Immigration authorities detained him in 2006, based on a 1979 conviction for misdemeanor battery and retail theft.

“I am confused as to how subject came into our custody???” the Phoenix field office director, Katrina S. Kane, wrote to subordinates. “Convicted in 1979? That’s a long time ago.”

In response, a report on his death was revised to refer to Mr. Owusu’s “lengthy criminal history ranging from 1977 to 1998.” It did not note that except for the battery conviction, that history consisted mostly of shoplifting offenses.

A diabetic with high blood pressure, he had been detained for two years at Eloy while he battled deportation. He died of a heart ailment weeks after his last appeal was dismissed.

 

[Agorism]

welfare state

The problem is that poor people, especially ones who may or may not be able to speak the language who are illegal, will inevitably vote Democrat if given citizenship.

People vote based on incentives.

If you have nothing at all, voting for the Democrats makes A LOT more sense than voting for the republicans. If they're just going to vote for the Democrats statistically and vote to steal your taxes and regulate you, I don't think very many citizens think that no rules immigration makes much sense.

That's why it makes better sense to allow immigration for well educated people who are sought after by corporate america.

 

[LibertyEagle]

must have missed this then.

does Ron Paul support forced re-patriation?

I never made such a claim. Nor, does it have one thing to do with believing in national sovereignty.

But, if you want to know what Ron Paul thinks about forced repatriation, maybe you should ask him. But, I seriously doubt he supports such an activity.

 

[Dieseler]

Minefields and trenches filled with fire and crocodiles.

 

[South Park Fan]

The problem is that poor people, especially ones who may or may not be able to speak the language who are illegal, will inevitably vote Democrat if given citizenship.

People vote based on incentives.

If you have nothing at all, voting for the Democrats makes A LOT more sense than voting for the republicans. If they're just going to vote for the Democrats statistically and vote to steal your taxes and regulate you, I don't think very many citizens think that no rules immigration makes much sense.

That's why it makes better sense to allow immigration for well educated people who are sought after by corporate america.

What happens when those "well educated people" vote for Republicans? If they're just going to vote for the Republicans statistically and vote to steal your taxes and regulate you, I don't think vfery many citizens think that immigration makes much sense.

 

[Agorism]

Republicans

Republicans are the more anti-government party. I always vote for the republicans with the exception of the president.

That seat is different because the president gets 100% control over the military and foreign policy. I don't really trust McCain or Obama with control of that.

 

[Met Income]

Agorists vote for Republicans?

 

[MPLW]

There's no "right way" to do it. If you want, you just do it, as long as you have the power to do so. Want to EVENTUALLY open borders up? Why wait? Let's f'n do it!

 

[South Park Fan]

Republicans are the more anti-government party. I always vote for the republicans with the exception of the president.

That seat is different because the president gets 100% control over the military and foreign policy. I don't really trust McCain or Obama with control of that.

Very funny.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance178.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance166.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance165.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance118.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance96.html

 

[Agorism]

Dems want to steal ur money more than the republicans do.

Repubs want more wars, but as long as they are our of the WH, then they don't get to do that as much.

I think the R party is generally much better than the D party. The R party is like Ron Paul or Taft at it's best so it can at least be reasonable.

The Democrat party is incapable of that though.

 

[teacherone]

Agorists vote for Republicans?

new member still trapped in the false left-right paradigm. give him some time.

 

[Agorism]

Just got a new account.

 

[The Patriot]

I am definitely against open borders.

 

[constituent]

new member still trapped in the false left-right paradigm. give him some time.

Just got a new account.

huh, what was your previous account?

 

[The Patriot]

Rome didn't last for 1,000 years, (it lasted for around 250 years as a Republic, then about 300-400 as a Despotic Empire, then it crumbled) nor did it fight Carthage for 200 years. Wrong on both accounts.

Besides, you keep grasping at strawman. Why are you fighting the facts so desperately? Why do you want to live as a subject so bad?

That is incorrect. The Roman Empire(including the Roman Republic), lasted from 509 B.C to 1453 A.D(The fall of Constantinople to the Turks and the collapse of the Eastern Roman Empire aka the Byzantine Empire)

 

[Voltaire]

"A nation without borders is no nation at all."

http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/border-security/

Couldn't agree more.

-----------------------------------

As for Rome, the Kingdom began to exist in 753 BC. The Empire ceased to formally exist when Romulus Augustus was deposed in 476 AD.

Nonetheless, it is conventionally believed that Rome continued to exist in the East for a longer period of time after that.

 

[Pacis]

Said the economist in Gustave de Molinari's Soirees:

In the first place, National Unity would have to exist before it could be destroyed. Now, I cannot see a national unity in these shapeless agglomerations of people that violence has shaped and that most frequently violence alone maintains. It is wrong then to confuse these two things which are naturally quite distinct: the nation and the government. A nation is one when the individuals which comprise it have the same mores, the same language, the same civilization; when they form a distinct and original variety of the human race. Whether this nation has two governments or whether it has only one does not matter very much.