Anyone else object to being called "Libertarian"?

[Zach Vega]

I'm cool with it.

 

[cheapseats]

Yer off in lala land. When I spend thee months on an oil painting or 4000 hours writing and creating assets for an MMORPG that is not thought, that is production using my hands and brains with a special talent partly gifted and partly gained through years and years of dedication.. People expect to be paid for production but you clowns treat my personal work like I do it for free because I love everybody, whilst I turn into a skeleton and die of starvation. Fuck ya all. . You people are knee jerked. This is another reason I am not chill with Libertarians. This kind of word twisting disingenuous crap. Your fellow bogus philosophers and will twist reality to have it outcome to your philosophy. . You cannot win this argument with me. It is real world and not a bunch of half wit undedicated semantics tied to an illusory philosophy..

Consider your bogus arguments dick is in the dirt. I don't buy it one iota. It has NO LEGS to stand on and comes from a bogus position to start.. All you did was reinforce my original premise. Note for those slow..he is claiming my work is free because i thought about it prior to producing it. So..Crotale..when yer transmission on yer car goes it do you get the mechanic to fix it for free or do you have to pay. I guarantee your answer to this is loaded to the max with hypocrisy.

Rev9

COMPLETELY agree...the outrageous and self-serving notion of "freedom" to peddle copies of other people's idiosyncratic, free-standing, fixed-form original WORK is exactly that, OUTRAGEOUS AND SELF-SERVING. Usually tho not always, the "belief" is held by people who never had an original idea in their lives and likely won't.

That said, YOU are in la-la land (I hope you don't think you coined that phrase, or THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE) if you think there are no REPUBLICAN Ron Paul Supporters who oppose copyright protection. They're just keepin' quiet, 'cuz they don't want their Heavy Hitters jumping off the NO ONE BUT RON PAUL AS A REPUBLICAN & FAILING THAT, REPUBLICAN GAINS little red wagon.

 

[Xhin]

@Rev9

I don't think anyone is arguing that you have to produce for free. Most of the issue people have with IP is that it protects distributors, NOT content producers. In fact it can bite the actual content producers in the ass if they sign up with a bad distributor. As for actual ideas, yeah, once you use them to create something, you should no longer have rights to the idea itself, just to your specific implementation of it. If you want to retain rights to an idea, then you make sure you find your own unique niche that your competitors won't be able to touch.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

There's plenty of disagreement among libertarians on that subject. I'd say most libertarians I've known believe in intellectual property rights.

Nah, it's the opposite from my experiences. Anyway, 'intellectual property' is antithetical to the philosophy of liberty. Most libertarians do not support government-enforced coercive monopolies of ideas.

That might have something to do with where we are located. I'm talking about real life people I've met, and they were mostly located in the "bread basket" of America. In fact, I shouldn't just say "most libertarians I've known believe in intellectual property rights," but I should call it an "overwhelming majority." Many view intellectual property as "property," and then apply their libertarian ideals from there.

 

[Elwar]

The first thing you should ask yourself is, do you object to being called a libertarian because they are lumping you into a collective even though you are an individual?

Or is it because the term "libertarian" may have some bad conotations? And if it does, who do you think has given it that bad name?

In its most basic, the term refers to those who support liberty. Liberty being freedom from arbitrary or despotic government.

Why would someone object to being referred to as someone who is against arbitrary or despotic government? Unless you have been trained to object to it.


First and foremost, I am an individual. I have my own thoughts and ideals. When someone puts a label on me it tells me more about them than it does about me.

 

[Narmical]

Yer off in lala land. When I spend thee months on an oil painting or 4000 hours writing and creating assets for an MMORPG that is not thought, that is production using my hands and brains with a special talent partly gifted and partly gained through years and years of dedication.. People expect to be paid for production but you clowns treat my personal work like I do it for free because I love everybody, whilst I turn into a skeleton and die of starvation. Fuck ya all. . You people are knee jerked. This is another reason I am not chill with Libertarians. This kind of word twisting disingenuous crap. Your fellow bogus philosophers and will twist reality to have it outcome to your philosophy. . You cannot win this argument with me. It is real world and not a bunch of half wit undedicated semantics tied to an illusory philosophy..

Consider your bogus arguments dick is in the dirt. I don't buy it one iota. It has NO LEGS to stand on and comes from a bogus position to start.. All you did was reinforce my original premise. Note for those slow..he is claiming my work is free because i thought about it prior to producing it. So..Crotale..when yer transmission on yer car goes it do you get the mechanic to fix it for free or do you have to pay. I guarantee your answer to this is loaded to the max with hypocrisy.

Rev9

For what its worth, copyright and patent protection do not cover the fashion industry. There are plenty of creative people working hard and getting payed in that field. You didn't say it, but you strongly implied that no one would pay you (or anyone else) to do what you do if not for IP laws. Which is clearly false.

On another note, patent protection does extend to Jewelry. However, because jewelry has been around for thousands of years, its next to impossible to prove your work is new and thus de facto there is no protection. I don't see that stopping the jewelry market.

Therefore I conclude that copyright and patent are not required for a creative industry to flourish as there are two counter examples.

 

[Revolution9]

COMPLETELY agree...the outrageous and self-serving notion of "freedom" to peddle copies of other people's idiosyncratic, free-standing, fixed-form original WORK is exactly that, OUTRAGEOUS AND SELF-SERVING. Usually tho not always, the "belief" is held by people who never had an original idea in their lives and likely won't.

That said, YOU are in la-la land (I hope you don't think you coined that phrase, or THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLY) if you think there are no REPUBLICAN Ron Paul Supporters who oppose copyright protection. They're just keepin' quiet, 'cuz they don't want their Heavy Hitters jumping off the NO ONE BUT RON PAUL AS A REPUBLICAN & FAILING THAT, REPUBLICAN GAINS little red wagon.

You mistake me for a Republican. I am an artist, writer, inventor, programmer, scientist and musician.. Lately I am becoming a mathematician. And soon electronics. I have never defined myself by a political party. I define myself by my personal abilities.

Rev9

 

[cheapseats]

Yer off in lala land. When I spend thee months on an oil painting or 4000 hours writing and creating assets for an MMORPG that is not thought, that is production using my hands and brains with a special talent partly gifted and partly gained through years and years of dedication.. People expect to be paid for production but you clowns treat my personal work like I do it for free because I love everybody, whilst I turn into a skeleton and die of starvation. Fuck ya all. . You people are knee jerked. This is another reason I am not chill with Libertarians. This kind of word twisting disingenuous crap. Your fellow bogus philosophers and will twist reality to have it outcome to your philosophy. . You cannot win this argument with me. It is real world and not a bunch of half wit undedicated semantics tied to an illusory philosophy..

Consider your bogus arguments dick is in the dirt. I don't buy it one iota. It has NO LEGS to stand on and comes from a bogus position to start.. All you did was reinforce my original premise. Note for those slow..he is claiming my work is free because i thought about it prior to producing it. So..Crotale..when yer transmission on yer car goes it do you get the mechanic to fix it for free or do you have to pay. I guarantee your answer to this is loaded to the max with hypocrisy.

Rev9

For what its worth, copyright and patent protection do not cover the fashion industry. There are plenty of creative people working hard and getting payed in that field. You didn't say it, but you strongly implied that no one would pay you (or anyone else) to do what you do if not for IP laws. Which is clearly false.

On another note, patent protection does extend to Jewelry. However, because jewelry has been around for thousands of years, its next to impossible to prove your work is new and thus de facto there is no protection. I don't see that stopping the jewelry market.

Therefore I conclude that copyright and patent are not required for a creative industry to flourish as there are two counter examples.

Because KNOCK-OFFS...an imperceptibly different cut, a cheap zipper here, some gold plating there...are a thriving sector of the FASHION & ACCESSORY INDUSTRY, people should also be "free" to profitably reproduce and disseminate YOUR original work. It's GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, dontcha know.

got eminent domain?

 

[Revolution9]

For what its worth, copyright and patent protection do not cover the fashion industry. There are plenty of creative people working hard and getting payed in that field. You didn't say it, but you strongly implied that no one would pay you (or anyone else) to do what you do if not for IP laws. Which is clearly false.

On another note, patent protection does extend to Jewelry. However, because jewelry has been around for thousands of years, its next to impossible to prove your work is new and thus de facto there is no protection. I don't see that stopping the jewelry market.

Therefore I conclude that copyright and patent are not required for a creative industry to flourish as there are two counter examples.

I don't work in the fashion field and have no desire to. I understand copyright and patents quite well and am glad to have them in place. And ya know.. distributors distribute an artists product, whether it is a game, painting, illustration, logo, portariture and I am quite willing to pay them for that. I am not willing to have my hard work ripped off and resold to the marketplace by someone who didn't pay me a thin dime for using my work. Yet you advocate that and by proxy large corporations stepping all over the independent garage tinkerer who can steal their design the moment they get their mitts on it with no consequences. Basically you espouse an economy of burger flippers and CEO's. How fucking freedom loving is that?? You want to kill my ability to create freedom for myself economically. You guys put no thought experiment at all into your blitherfests.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

Because KNOCK-OFFS...an imperceptibly different cut, a cheap zipper here, some gold plating there...are a thriving sector of the FASHION & ACCESSORY INDUSTRY, people should also be "free" to profitably reproduce and disseminate YOUR original work. It's GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, dontcha know.

got eminent domain?

They can try to copy my work. Hell. Vallejo made a fortune copying Frank Frazetta. Copying is not reproducing a facsimile of it. I would be furious if someone downloaded my work, made posters and sold them without asking or offering me a percentage. I am liable to kick his ass up and down the block for utter disrespect. Yet this is precisely what you advocate and the shill along a bit with the copying "look over there" gambit. I don't buy it/.

Rev9

 

[cheapseats]

They can try to copy my work. Hell. Vallejo made a fortune copying Frank Frazetta. Copying is not reproducing a facsimile of it. I would be furious if someone downloaded my work, made posters and sold them without asking or offering me a percentage. I am liable to kick his ass up and down the block for utter disrespect. Yet this is precisely what you advocate and the shill along a bit with the copying "look over there" gambit. I don't buy it/.

Rev9

You are determined to dislike and discredit me, that is your affair/myopia/irrationality/whatever.

I am CLEARLY coming down on the same side of the IP argument as you are.

If it makes you FEEL any better, I don't like it any better than you do.

 

[Karsten]

Absolutely!

We need the LP and the rest of the conservative 3rd parties to come back and help us.

The reason the GOP strayed so far from its roots these last 35 years is because the libertarians left for a failed run at a new party. They need to come back!

I've seen this script before. It's 2015, looking a lot like 2003. There was a terrorist attack early in Mitt Romney's Presidency. New laws were passed, near unanimously, further destroying what's left of our civil liberties, and a lot more severe than the patriot act. There's a new war overseas, but because few are enlisting, there is now a draft.

Still expect us to be Republicans?

I'm proud to be a libertarian. I was libertarian well before 2007. After what happened in the Bush years, I never in a million years thought I would be Republican, and I only became Republican to support Ron Paul.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

COMPLETELY agree...the outrageous and self-serving notion of "freedom" to peddle copies of other people's idiosyncratic, free-standing, fixed-form original WORK is exactly that, OUTRAGEOUS AND SELF-SERVING. Usually tho not always, the "belief" is held by people who never had an original idea in their lives and likely won't.

That said, YOU are in la-la land (I hope you don't think you coined that phrase, or THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLY) if you think there are no REPUBLICAN Ron Paul Supporters who oppose copyright protection. They're just keepin' quiet, 'cuz they don't want their Heavy Hitters jumping off the NO ONE BUT RON PAUL AS A REPUBLICAN & FAILING THAT, REPUBLICAN GAINS little red wagon.

LOL!! You don't know your history. Prior to IP laws, copying was not only accepted, it was encouraged as a learning tool as well as a means of meeting popular demand for certain things. The concept of "idea ownership" is VERY new in history, and has created a demonstrable decline in the quality of creative work that gets published.

Copying is not theft, the musical:


ETA: I suggest adding "The Anti-Capitalist Mentality" to your reading list, as you haz it.

 

[cheapseats]

LOL!! You don't know your history. Prior to IP laws, copying was not only accepted, it was encouraged as a learning tool as well as a means of meeting popular demand for certain things. The concept of "idea ownership" is VERY new in history, and has created a demonstrable decline in the quality of creative work that gets published.

SLAVERY used to be legal, too. Believe you me, you can REALLY improve the ol' bottom line if you don't pay the Help AT ALL.

Copycat, mass-produced knock-offs made "cheaper"...read that, slap-dash by grossly underpaid people-including-children in "third world" countries...certainly does "meet popular demand for certain things". Howz THAT workin' out for us?

The VERY disturbing and "demonstrable decline in the quality of creative work that gets published" is DIRECTLY related to Corporate Ownership & Media Kingpins...who reportedly now "make" MORE money than Wall Street Titans.

 

[CCTelander]

snip

The VERY disturbing and "demonstrable decline in the quality of creative work that gets published" is DIRECTLY related to Corporate Ownership & Media Kingpins...who reportedly now "make" MORE money than Wall Street Titans.

And that/those "Corporate Ownership & Media Kingpins" only exist as a direct consequence of copyright and patents. They literally could not exist without.

 

[brooks009]

Stealing a person’s idea that can make money is the same as stealing money from that person’s wallet.

From a product designer/inventor.

 

[Ivash]

LOL!! You don't know your history. Prior to IP laws, copying was not only accepted, it was encouraged as a learning tool as well as a means of meeting popular demand for certain things. The concept of "idea ownership" is VERY new in history, and has created a demonstrable decline in the quality of creative work that gets published.

Before the concept of intellectual property became law only the rich could afford to actually produce creative works. They would either do it themselves or pay others to do it for them. All those without a rich benefactor could not produce creative works themselves as it would take too much time away from them, time that they needed to spend doing paid work.

 

[cheapseats]

And that/those "Corporate Ownership & Media Kingpins" only exist as a direct consequence of copyright and patents. They literally could not exist without.

Baloney.

They ABUSE THE SYSTEM, "sure", like they ABUSE POWER.

Officials are Executives' handmaidens, not the other way around.

Patent/Copyright hanky-panky is NOT the sole instance of Executive Skullduggery or the sole source of Corporate Power.

Variations of SINCE EVERYONE IS GETTING RIPPED OFF, EVERYONE SHOULD BE FREE TO STEAL is Moral Relativism, "pure" and simple. Recollect how "we" decided there was plenty of blame to go around with the MANMADE financial "crisis", so just punish no one and MOVE ON. Just like we did with the S & L "Crisis".

Ripping off Artists & Inventors is so much SAFER than going mano a mano with Big Money Bad Guys.

Besides, Artists & Inventors are ACCUSTOMED to posthumous recognition.

 

[jointhefightforfreedom]

All Ron Paul supporters are constantly refered to as Libertarians in the media, I consider myself a conservative Republican personally, just not the kind of conservative Republican that most in the party have de-volved into these days with all the war rhetoric, but my hope is to bring Republicans back to their senses, not turn them into Libertarians. I also feel this label has turned alot of potential Rep voters off to us.

Nope , I'm Proud of it !

If you believe and support the constitution , How could you be anything else?

American = Libertarian IMO

 

[Narmical]

Because KNOCK-OFFS...an imperceptibly different cut, a cheap zipper here, some gold plating there...are a thriving sector of the FASHION & ACCESSORY INDUSTRY, people should also be "free" to profitably reproduce and disseminate YOUR original work. It's GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY, dontcha know.

got eminent domain?

You have not addressed the argument of no IP equates to no compensation for creative work. You just said "knock offs are not fair"

Yet you advocate that and by proxy large corporations stepping all over the independent garage tinkerer who can steal their design the moment they get their mitts on it with no consequences.
Rev9

You just pointed out the good intended goal of IP law, but unfortunately just like most laws, it does not meat its goal and has bad unintended consequences. Many times the very laws you claim are there to protect the little guy, are actually used against such activity. Copyrights are cheep but patents are not. And to assert your rights to a patent requires many many lawyer hours.

Woe is you to be on the receiving end of such a suit.