Anyone else here pro-choice?

[Mckarnin]

Good call on the original feminists. People don't realize that feminism movement started years and years ago.

Quotes from our Feminist Foremothers

 

[Fields]

Quotes from our Feminist Foremothers

Thanks for the link.

 

[tarabyte]

Quotes from our Feminist Foremothers

For all the Hillary-bashing, it is refreshing to know that in under 100 years America went from not allowing women to vote to having a woman as a serious contender for president.

 

[fmontez]

You misinterpreted what I said. I didn't state that it was not alive. I stated that it was not a human being. That is the difference.

Your cells are alive. Billions of them die and billions are "born" each day. Does that make your individual cells human beings with individual rights too?

I'm sorry but until a fetus becomes viable to the point that a sentient life is capable of being sustained, it is not a human being. It is alive, and aborting it is killing it. But it is not a human being, any more than your cells are human beings. The sentience is what makes the different IMO.

It's not sentience, but indivitual rights issue here, it is a seperate body, it's level of sentience is developing, not destroyed... it has human rights. Remember, the founders did not give us human rights. A person does not have to earn their life. Murder is murder, and killing babies in the womb meets the defination of murder.

People try to deflect, by talking about "womens rights" instead of the act itself... they deny the crime, and then even pat themselves on the back while telling themselves they are heros of female privacy. No better than the German soldiers that killed millions of Jews and said they were doing the work of God and Country.

 

[yongrel]

Honestly, I'm whichever side I thought about most recently. I make strong arguments for both. My brain hurts.

 

[Mckarnin]

For all the Hillary-bashing, it is refreshing to know that in under 100 years America went from not allowing women to vote to having a woman as a serious contender for president.

yes, it is

 

[ErikBlack]

Pro-choice except late-term abortions

 

[dkim68]

Well that's only if you believe that the soul of an aborted child is forever lost and never comes into existence because of the abortion.

Frankly, I believe that the soul of an aborted child simply gets reincarnated into someone else. Although my belief in this is probably radically unpopular.

Actually, I do believe aborted children have souls and that they live on in some sort of afterlife. But I do not believe their souls are reincarnated into another being. I saw an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" once where an older couple had hired a psychic to communicate with their son who died during an expedition climbing Mt. Fuji. The psychic was in contact with the son but also said there was someone else who wanted to speak, a young woman who was about 21-years in age. It turns out this young woman was their daughter who the mother had lost through miscarriage 21-years prior. They had never told another living soul about that loss. So in the afterlife this woman had continued to age as if she were still alive in our world. As Wolf says: Amazing, amazing.

 

[tarabyte]

It's not sentience, but indivitual rights issue here, it is a seperate body, it's level of sentience is developing, not destroyed... it has human rights. Remember, the founders did not give us human rights. A person does not have to earn their life. Murder is murder, and killing babies in the womb meets the defination of murder.

People try to deflect, by talking about "womens rights" instead of the act itself... they deny the crime, and then even pat themselves on the back while telling themselves they are heros of female privacy. No better than the German soldiers that killed millions of Jews and said they were doing the work of God and Country.

Well I guess that because I believe in reincarnation I don't feel so pissed off about it.

For those who believe that being aborted or miscarried has denied the very existence of the soul meant for that body, I guess the issue is a lot stickier.

But I still think that the soul exists and just finds another body to call home for its human incarnation.

So I can see why atheists get so upset about this, but I don't know why anyone who believes in eternal life or the existence of souls gets quite so upset about it.

Again, I'm not disagreeing that abortion is wrong and immoral, I just disagree that it is entirely on par with murder.

 

[tarabyte]

Actually, I do believe aborted children have souls and that they live on in some sort of afterlife. But I do not believe their souls are reincarnated into another being. I saw an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" once where an older couple had hired a psychic to communicate with their son who died during an expedition climbing Mt. Fuji. The psychic was in contact with the son but also said there was someone else who wanted to speak, a young woman who was about 21-years in age. It turns out this young woman was their daughter who the mother had lost through miscarriage 21-years prior. They had never told another living soul about that loss. So in the afterlife this woman had continued to age as if she were still alive in our world. As Wolf says: Amazing, amazing.

That is very interesting. Thanks for the post

 

[Eric21ND]

Wow, talk about a chauvinist... Or just a playa perhaps?

I do well for myself thanks for asking

Since you think yourself to be so self-righteous I have no doubt you are booking a ticket to Africa as we speak and will bring back no less than 10 starving children to feed and care for. After all these are real human beings that can actually feel pain and have a fully developed central nervous system.

 

[tarabyte]

I do well for myself thanks for asking

Since you think yourself to be so self-righteous I have no doubt you are booking a ticket to Africa as we speak and will bring back no less than 10 starving children to feed and care for. After all these are real human beings that can actually feel pain and have a fully developed central nervous system.

well put.

People get soooooooooooo riled up about abortion. But it is not that big of an issue in comparison to WAR, POVERTY, DISEASE, etc.

I wonder how all the pro-lifers would feel if the government insisted that they adopt the babies resulting from unwanted pregnancies because abortion is outlawed.

 

[stewie3128]

Pro-choice.

 

[LandonCook]

Pro choice.

"Pro life" is mainly a relic of religion. Funny that most "pro lifers" do not apply the same views when it comes to the death penalty.

I'm agnostic, Pro life, and anti-death penalty

 

[literatim]

I'm "pro-women should decide this issue" because ultimately they are the one that must carry the burden. Abortion in some form has been praciticed for hundreds, if not thousands of years and will continue to do so no matter what happens. Natural spontaneous abortion happens in nature all the time in the animal kingdom.

Miscarriages happen, as does all forms of death. Many people are hit by cars, doesn't mean murdering people by hitting them with cars should be legal.

Try working at child protective services and you'd see the reality of what horrible parents some people truly are. These are children that can actually feel the physical and emotional pain of abuse, an embryo has no such capacity.

Then you support the killing of children that are physically and emotionally in pain from abuse?

I believe proper sex education could help tremendously in preventing unwanted pregnancies.

'Unwanted pregnancies' aren't relevant to the topic of the fact that the human life has the right to live.

It is often the same people that detest abortion the loudest that also want to deny teenagers any knowledge on the subject of sex. They would rather us all live in an intellectual dark age.

Why? Because we know that teaching them birth control gives an a'ok to do it and we also know all forms of birth control can fail. Ask my cousin who has had 2 children from birth control failures. If you warned them that all forms of birth control can fail and that if they get pregnant, they have to keep it or spend a life time in prison, I think 'unwanted pregnancies' would reduce.

You misinterpreted what I said. I didn't state that it was not alive. I stated that it was not a human being. That is the difference.

What is it then?

Your cells are alive. Billions of them die and billions are "born" each day. Does that make your individual cells human beings with individual rights too?

I'm sorry but until a fetus becomes viable to the point that a sentient life is capable of being sustained, it is not a human being. It is alive, and aborting it is killing it. But it is not a human being, any more than your cells are human beings. The sentience is what makes the different IMO.

I think you need to read When Do Human Beings Begin? "Scientific" Myths and Scientific Facts by by Dianne N. Irving, M.A., Ph.D

 

[Joe3113]

There is no such thing as Pro-Life and Pro-Choice. You cannot simplify people's position on this issue down to a little catch phrase. As a veterinary student I understand the complexity of ontogeny. It is not a matter of black and white. The Pro-Life and Pro-Choice designations are designed to cause divisiveness, as is the false left-right paradigm.

The fact is you have to look at each situation individually.

Obviously, if a women is raped, abortion is justified because there has been an incursion on the women's liberty. However, even in this situation, I think we have to accept that any case of abortion is killing a human being. The ontogenic process is one which is continuous and linear in complexity. There is no distinct point at which a something suddenly changes from a cluster of cells to a human being. I think people want to believe this is the case to justify their abortions. They are wrong. If you say an abortion is morally justifiable in any case, up to day 14, then why not day 15, and if day 15 then why not day 16 and so on. The fact is that ontogenic development is a continuous process. Any distinct point that is designated as a so-called cut-off point of morality is simply arbitrary. Life does begin at conception. Accept it.

On the other hand I think if a man and a women go for a roll in the hay because they got drunk at a party, I don't think abortion is justified in that situation. Also keep in mind that I think the newly created human being is the responsibility of both the male and female who participated in the act. The question is then, of course, whether legislation should be used to protect the human being inside the women. Personally I don't think creating a law that makes performing abortions illegal, is going to help the situation. If a women does not want the baby then there is a humane issue for that baby, not only during ontogeny (if the women tries to peform abort the baby by non-conventional means), but following birth.

It certainly is a tough issue. I think the philosophy of small government and individual responsibility will greatly reduce the number of abortions that occur. People have become reliant on government to tell them what is right and wrong, therefore they have lost their sense of self-responsibility. I think if responsibility returned to the individual in other areas, then it is more likely people will take more responsibility in their sexual behaviour. They will be more caring and concerned and so abortions will naturally reduce.

On the other hand, if you make abortions legal in a welafare-warfare state, you end up with an awful sitatuation of people not taking reponsibility, and rather thinking abortions are fine because the goverment said so and never doing your their research.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I think ripping fetuses out of a woman is inhumane. Sex is for reproduction. You don't have sex then kill a undeveloped child because you didn't mean to create a life while doing an act which creates it.

On the other hand I sympathize with it because of population control.

 

[Truth Warrior]

"Pro-choice" on taxes and spending.

 

[StateofTrance]

Pro-woman's decision(s)

 

[DAFTEK]

Me and my wife are Pro-Choice and we are for Ron Paul for President!