American Atheists Target Christmas in Billboard

[idirtify]

modern christianity is so far off base, the whole church establishment takes its cues from the catholic church, even the names of days and months are set by the catholic church, all romanic. they worshiped many gods, old testament names and holidays are set aside, its all to decieve people and take them away from YHVH.
even the atheist are caught in it.
please be kind to me idirtify

You are right. Modern religions are mostly amalgams of earlier traditions. But since that dilution process extends back into countless centuries worth of invasions and occupations and conquests and mixing of cultures, any original message that was ever there was lost long ago (well, at least deeply hidden). So I will kindly ask you: How are atheist “caught in it”?

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Do they say Atheists are idiots on them as well?

Some say non-believers will burn.

 

[Dr.3D]

Some say non-believers will burn.

Why should the non-believers care about that? If they really don't believe, then they should also think nothing is going to happen to them and they are not going to burn. It shouldn't bother them in the least.

 

[TonySutton]

Why should the non-believers care about that? If they really don't believe, then they should also think nothing is going to happen to them and they are not going to burn. It shouldn't bother them in the least.

The same could be said about believers with regards to this billboard. It shouldn't bother them in the least.

 

[Dr.3D]

The same could be said about believers with regards to this billboard. It shouldn't bother them in the least.

Doesn't bother me. It just reflects badly on those who composed it.

 

[Flash]

Didn't read this thread, but throw me in with the "Christians against Xmas" crowd. No Santa. No presents. No shopping. No family. No baby Jesus. No manger. I don't do pagan Christmas.

Don't forget it was a celebration of life before the Christians took over the holiday. Hence the christmas trees. I'm sure there wasn't a giant Walmart in ancient Germania. It was the Christians who took over the holiday and made it about giving gifts to people. I guess that is more important than say donating to charities or whatnot.

Also, believing that Jesus of Nazareth was not born is a very unreasonable conclusion. It is very clear that he existed. Whether or not he was God can be debated.

Actually there's little evidence, if any, that Jesus existed.
http://mwillett.org/atheism/jesusmyth.htm

 

[Dr.3D]

Don't forget it was a celebration of life before the Christians took over the holiday. Hence the christmas trees. I'm sure there wasn't a giant Walmart in ancient Germania. It was the Christians who took over the holiday and made it about giving gifts to people. I guess that is more important than say donating to charities or whatnot.




Actually there's little evidence, if any, that Jesus existed at all.
http://mwillett.org/atheism/jesusmyth.htm

Don't be so sure it was Christians who took over that pagan holiday.

 

[Maximus]

No one is saying that Christmas is actually Jesus' birthday. Christmas is a celebration of the Incarnation of Christ and his birth into our world.

To those of you saying that Christmas was orginally a "pagan" holiday, who cares? Why can't good from something like that? Isn't it CS Lewis who called many pre-Christian traditions "happy dreams"?

The Church selected the date because of its cosmological significance, it is the day that you begin to see the days become longer again. Christ is the light of the world. It makes sense to celebrate his birth on the day the light begins to again overcome darkness. It ties in perfectly with the message and mission that Christ brought to earth. It should be a day of great feasting and rejoicing. Why otherwise?

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to celebrate the fact that God was born into our world while you profess to believe in Him. If you don't celebrate Christmas than you shouldn't celebrate your own birthday (pagans did that as well). At least the Jehovahs Witnesses are consistent.

 

[Liberty4life]

No one is saying that Christmas is actually Jesus' birthday. Christmas is a celebration of the Incarnation of Christ and his birth into our world.

To those of you saying that Christmas was orginally a "pagan" holiday, who cares? Why can't good from something like that? Isn't it CS Lewis who called many pre-Christian traditions "happy dreams"?

The Church selected the date because of its cosmological significance, it is the day that you begin to see the days become longer again. Christ is the light of the world. It makes sense to celebrate his birth on the day the light begins to again overcome darkness. It ties in perfectly with the message and mission that Christ brought to earth. It should be a day of great feasting and rejoicing. Why otherwise?

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to celebrate the fact that God was born into our world while you profess to believe in Him. If you don't celebrate Christmas than you shouldn't celebrate your own birthday (pagans did that as well). At least the Jehovahs Witnesses are consistent.

With all due respect sir, trying to get people to believe Jesus was born on this day is an insult to God. Doing this "for the children" is even more insulting, you really think God approves of this?

 

[nate895]

With all due respect sir, trying to get people to believe Jesus was born on this day is an insult to God. Doing this "for the children" is even more insulting, you really think God approves of this?

I don't remember reading in the Bible anything about "Thou must get Jesus' brithday correct, lest one perish in everlasting fire."

Isn't it just a bit extreme to say that those who say that Dec. 25th is Jesus' birthday are insulting God? That isn't even what he is saying.

 

[Maximus]

With all due respect sir, trying to get people to believe Jesus was born on this day is an insult to God. Doing this "for the children" is even more insulting, you really think God approves of this?

Did you not read my very first sentence?

Again, how is celebrating Jesus' birthday wrong? Why do you celebrate your birthday if celebrating the fact that Jesus was born is wrong?

 

[Liberty4life]

I stand corrected, please excuse my enthusiasm.

 

[Dr.3D]

Did you not read my very first sentence?

Again, how is celebrating Jesus' birthday wrong? Why do you celebrate your birthday if celebrating the fact that Jesus was born is wrong?

Using a pagan date is what is wrong with celebrating Jesus' birthday when it is celebrated.

I've been accused of saying too much about this subject in the past so I'll just point to a link.
http://www.thercg.org/books/ttooc.html

I'll quote just a little from that site.

Can Christ be Honored by Christmas?​

The most common justification that one will hear regarding Christmas is that people have replaced old pagan customs and intents by asserting that they are now “focusing on Christ.” I have heard many say that they are “honoring Christ” in their Christmas-keeping. The problem is that God does not say this is acceptable to Him! Actually, He plainly commands against it! Keeping Christmas dishonors Christ! He considers everything about it to be an abomination! We will soon see why.

Christ said, “But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:9). Christmas is not a command of God—it is a tradition of men. Christ continued, “Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:9). Every year, throughout the world, on December 25th, hundreds of millions do just that!

We will see that God plainly commands, “Follow not the way of the heathen.” But most people do not fear God, and He allows them to make their own decisions. Human beings are free moral agents—free to obey or disobey God! But woe to those who ignore the plain Word of God!

 

[Maximus]

Using a pagan date is what is wrong with celebrating Jesus' birthday when it is celebrated.

I've been accused of saying too much about this subject in the past so I'll just point to a link.
http://www.thercg.org/books/ttooc.html

I'll quote just a little from that site.

Pagans celebrated many things throughout the year, many dates would conflict with pagan holidays. Maybe you were born on a pagan holiday, surely you are doing wrong by celebrating your birth on the same day that pagans had a holiday.

Why are you saying that we cannot celebrate the fact that God became man? Isn't this something that we should scream from the rooftops? What is wrong in setting aside a day to commemorate this? Was Jesus not born? Should we not acknowledge it?

Is it not Christian doctrine that the Word became flesh? It helps people to understand that Jesus really was man, who humbled himself and was born in a manger, visited by shepherds. Doesn't looking at a manger scene help people understand the story of the Nativity? Why would that be a bad thing?

 

[Dr.3D]

Pagans celebrated many things throughout the year, many dates would conflict with pagan holidays. Maybe you were born on a pagan holiday, surely you are doing wrong by celebrating your birth on the same day that pagans had a holiday.

Why are you saying that we cannot celebrate the fact that God became man? Isn't this something that we should scream from the rooftops? What is wrong in setting aside a day to commemorate this? Was Jesus not born? Should we not acknowledge it?

Is it not Christian doctrine that the Word became flesh? It helps people to understand that Jesus really was man, who humbled himself and was born in a manger, visited by shepherds. Doesn't looking at a manger scene help people understand the story of the Nativity? Why would that be a bad thing?

Do whatever you want.

I don't celebrate my birthday either.

 

[Maximus]

Well at least you're consistent.

 

[MelissaWV]

I celebrate whenever friends and family have time off that coincides with my time off, so that I can spend uninterrupted time with them.

Christmas provides a focus to some of that time, and I enjoy thinking about the birth of a Savior and the miracles one encounters in life. This is along the same lines as how I enjoy Thanksgiving, reflecting on the things I am genuinely grateful for, and thinking of ways I can change those things which are making me unhappy or are otherwise not serving to better my life. Do I think little naked suspiciously pale baby Jesus was birthed in a manger on Christmas? Well, would it have been Christmas Eve or Christmas Day? It was night, after all, but we celebrate on 12/25. History disagrees with the notion of a December birthdate as well. Does any of this really change my aforementioned reasons for enjoying Christmas? Of course not.

* * *

idirtify...

Where do I start? FrankRep posts articles, and he posted this one. Bobby posts, too, and so does Matt Collins and also Anti Federalist. There are several forum members that simply post and move on. It's News & Discussion, and without the News being dropped off in the forums... there'd be very little Discussion. He is unlikely to answer, no matter how hopping mad you get, or how you choose to read intent into his posting this article.

Also, BlackTerrel did not say all atheists are anything. He was talking about the proverbial 1%, the very vocal minority, that seem to pop up and make demands of the rest of the population. I would agree with him that zealotry of that sort solves nothing on any side of the fence. It's akin to a Christian wanting every school to teach the Christmas Story as fact. This isn't what the original article was about, though.

The article was about a billboard, and it seems to have served its purpose since people are talking about it. I don't find it offensive at all. I can think of numerous things a billboard could show in order to be incredibly offensive to Christians around Christmas... and this isn't one of them. When it comes down to it, the billboard was negotiated between businesses and put up. Even within the constructs of current "decency" laws and the like, it isn't crossing any lines. It just mildly offends some people.

His point about Christianity seeming to have more motivation does bring to light the disturbing fact that, to some, atheism becomes its own religion... its own crusade. Instead of wanting everyone to believe in one's particular deity, it's wanting everyone to believe that there is no deity and that only science and reason can be trusted. I fail to see this as noble. Examine motivation, for a moment, and you'll see that (in theory, anyhow) a Christian trying quietly to convert me might think they are doing so to save my soul. An atheist trying to get me to renounce my religion is doing so... for what? To make me less stupid? To make my holidays more commercialized? Yank hope and faith from someone in order to leave them with no alternative? I can see, then, how BlackTerrel's point could be valid. Maybe.

I'm inclined to think that no one trying to "convert" me is doing an absolutely altruistic thing.

 

[idirtify]

Where do I start? FrankRep posts articles, and he posted this one. Bobby posts, too, and so does Matt Collins and also Anti Federalist. There are several forum members that simply post and move on. It's News & Discussion, and without the News being dropped off in the forums... there'd be very little Discussion. He is unlikely to answer, no matter how hopping mad you get, or how you choose to read intent into his posting this article.

“Hopping mad”? No. I’m actually enjoying dangling in front of FR the fact that until he explains his disagreement, he really has none. I mean come on; the idea that a billboard can “target” (as in “shoot” or “harm” or “attack”) something is pretty funny. It’s just an advertisement based on a disagreement. But since it disagrees with a popular religion, it somehow magically becomes something overtly harmful. Yeah right. It’s just more religious strawmanning in order to justify initiating aggression. I mean go ahead and enjoy your holidays; that billboard is hurting nothing.

Also, BlackTerrel did not say all atheists are anything.

Where did I claim he did?

He was talking about the proverbial 1%, the very vocal minority, that seem to pop up and make demands of the rest of the population. I would agree with him that zealotry of that sort solves nothing on any side of the fence. It's akin to a Christian wanting every school to teach the Christmas Story as fact. This isn't what the original article was about, though.

I think BT would do a better job of defending his posts. BUT HE LEFT TOO (there's your hint )

His point about Christianity seeming to have more motivation does bring to light the disturbing fact that, to some, atheism becomes its own religion

Either defend what he really posted, or give it up. Or maybe you too would like to try to claim that the basic act of stating an opinion and making a disagreement is a “religion”.

I fail to see this as noble. Examine motivation, for a moment, and you'll see that (in theory, anyhow) a Christian trying quietly to convert me might think they are doing so to save my soul. An atheist trying to get me to renounce my religion is doing so... for what? To make me less stupid? To make my holidays more commercialized? Yank hope and faith from someone in order to leave them with no alternative? I can see, then, how BlackTerrel's point could be valid. Maybe.

I'm inclined to think that no one trying to "convert" me is doing an absolutely altruistic thing.

Regarding Christian evangelists’ ALTRUISTIC/NOBLE INTENTIONS: Do I have to repeat the VERY OLD bit of wisdom about roads to hell paved with such? And as far as the intent behind ANY disagreement on LF (including ones against theism), need there be any more than education and information exchange?

 

[Andrew-Austin]

His point about Christianity seeming to have more motivation does bring to light the disturbing fact that, to some, atheism becomes its own religion... its own crusade. Instead of wanting everyone to believe in one's particular deity, it's wanting everyone to believe that there is no deity and that only science and reason can be trusted. I fail to see this as noble. Examine motivation, for a moment, and you'll see that (in theory, anyhow) a Christian trying quietly to convert me might think they are doing so to save my soul. An atheist trying to get me to renounce my religion is doing so... for what? To make me less stupid? To make my holidays more commercialized? Yank hope and faith from someone in order to leave them with no alternative? I can see, then, how BlackTerrel's point could be valid. Maybe.

Do you think religiosity, or religion in general, has a net effect upon this world which can be considered very negative?

 

[BlackTerrel]

You argue that atheists should not disagree with Christian belief, and that if they do, they are “smug assholes/jackasses”…“talking shit and thinking they are better than everyone else” and showing “insecurity”. I’m curious; do you insult everyone who disagrees with another’s belief, or do you just reserve this special aggressive treatment for those who disagree with YOURS? Either way, I’m even more curious how you think you can remain consistent and credible while posting the numerous disagreements that you do here on LF?

I don't say that anyone who disagrees with me is an asshole. I question why an atheist would want to spend time/money/effort on a billboard to deny a Christian his belief. Why would they care that much?

Readers:
It seems the fog of religion has once again clouded reasonable perspective. Yet again, here is an example of an advocate of religion initiating aggression. With each one, the pattern becomes clearer.

What aggression? Asshole can do whatever he wants - I can call him an asshole.