Age of Consent, Libertarians, and RP Forums - some clarification please

[HVACTech]

Ha ha ha ha, dannno, you flat out crack me up.

Haha! you get tired of it after awhile bro.
the LAST thing that I need is ANOTHER oversexed. b%^^&&** humping on my leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PniNdDr-iJo

the immortal Danke comes to mind. sir.

"if it floats, flies or fucks. it is better to rent"

 

[Origanalist]

Haha! you get tired of it after awhile bro.
the LAST thing that I need is ANOTHER oversexed. b%^^&&** humping on my leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PniNdDr-iJo

Not clicking that one...

 

[hankrichter12]

You are literally arguing against hearing the merits of a case, and for deciding the outcomes of multiple lives based on the parties' ages.

I can appreciate that maybe you came into this conversation without reading the whole discussion, but please appreciate I don't like having to write the same thing over and over. I already talked on the "grey area" issue, no, I don't say an 18yr old who had sex with a 17yr old 1 day away from his/her birthday is equitable to a 35yr old and 15 yr old - so some discretion should certainly be allowed.

You are claiming she is a minor in your care and she was victimized by assault.
I'm telling you that's great. Now prove it.

Prove she was your dependant.
Prove she was incapable of making her own decisions.
Prove she was a victim.
Prove she sustained injury.
Prove my client injured her knowingly and with mal intent.

No, the number of times the earth revolved around the sun since she popped out of your wife is not conclusive evidence of anything except itself. Nor is the solar age of my client.

Which goes right back to why the market solution of "jury of peers" would work well virtually every time without an official line in the sand "age of consent".

OK, so once again, we are back at the beginning. The "solar age" is never relevant, only what I can convince my peers of. Majority rule, isn't that how it always is?

 

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

It's a difficult situation. On the one hand, child molestation should be a capital crime. There's no reason to keep degenerate pedophiles alive. They can't be cured until we have the technology to change people's personality through brain surgery or gene therapy, and their victims often grow up to become predators themselves.

On the other hand, we've gone pedophile crazy in this country. Thinking a buxom 16 or 17 year old is hot is really the opposite of pedophilia when you think about it. When I was halfway to 24, I met and started dating an 18 year old girl. I mean just 18; the first time we had sex she had been of age for less than two months. Nothing we did was even remotely illegal, but had we met just sixty days earlier, it would have been. Does that make any sense at all? Was she really so different two months previous?

Now, let me be clear; she was extremely mature for her age, and I still had to end up breaking up with her because she was too immature for me. I think a 25 year old guy who can have a "relationship" with a 16 year old and be happy is suffering from stunted emotional and psychological development. 90% of women under the age of 21 are insufferable, the aforementioned girl I dated was the lone exception I've experienced since turning 22.

 

[HVACTech]

Not clicking that one...

this one is more "worser" sir.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BinwuzZVjnE

 

[hankrichter12]

It's a difficult situation. On the one hand, child molestation should be a capital crime. There's no reason to keep degenerate pedophiles alive. They can't be cured until we have the technology to change people's personality through brain surgery or gene therapy, and their victims often grow up to become predators themselves.

On the other hand, we've gone pedophile crazy in this country. Thinking a buxom 16 or 17 year old is hot is really the opposite of pedophilia when you think about it. When I was halfway to 24, I met and started dating an 18 year old girl. I mean just 18; the first time we had sex she had been of age for less than two months. Nothing we did was even remotely illegal, but had we met just sixty days earlier, it would have been. Does that make any sense at all? Was she really so different two months previous?

Now, let me be clear; she was extremely mature for her age, and I still had to end up breaking up with her because she was too immature for me. I think a 25 year old guy who can have a "relationship" with a 16 year old and be happy is suffering from stunted emotional and psychological development. 90% of women under the age of 21 are insufferable, the aforementioned girl I dated was the lone exception I've experienced since turning 22.

Read all of my posts, I've already touched on that, here's some of it - Great Avatar BTW, love the Butcher!

"I can appreciate that maybe you came into this conversation without reading the whole discussion, but please appreciate I don't like having to write the same thing over and over. I already talked on the "grey area" issue, no, I don't say an 18yr old who had sex with a 17yr old 1 day away from his/her birthday is equitable to a 35yr old and 15 yr old - so some discretion should certainly be allowed."

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't know where some of you grew up or what your relationship with women happens to be, but if anyone came sniffing around my daughter or any of my nieces at 16 I am going rip off their leg and beat them with it.

You will always be defensive of your younger female family members. Nothing unusual about that at all. There is no age limit on that.

But they have to live their lives and make their mistakes, and 16 year olds know everything, didn't you know?

 

[Slutter McGee]

The big question is this:

Is anybody going to ever call Dannno out for wanting to boink underage women? Shit has been going on for years.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Holy F U C...K, we have a profanity filter. S/./H&^%it

 

[hankrichter12]

The big question is this:

Is anybody going to ever call Dannno out for wanting to boink underage women? $#@! has been going on for years.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Holy F U C...K, we have a profanity filter. S/./H&^%it

Well, the FBI just raided Ian Freeman, so probably won't take them long to see all that Ron Paul stuff in his apartment, then check RP Forums, then see some of these sick freaks on here saying 40yr olds banging 14 year olds is a wonderful experience a kid will never forget, and Danno and crew might be getting a knock on the door.

Not usually a fan of the FBI, but can't say I lose any sleep over removing people who think that kind of sex is part of "Liberty". Listen to this guy, I'm just sure Ron Paul would be so proud of what he's inspired:

"Even at 14 I would still be holding annual candlelight vigils to this day. Of course, in my day as a teenager (and being male), having slept with an older woman would undoubtedly have been bragged about and then cherished amongst our fondest memories. While I certainly can't speak for women, are you as a male really going to claim that you would have been scarred for life? And that the woman should have been jailed for life? If so, you're lying to us and yourself."

 

[ProIndividual]

This is an issue of ability to consent, nothing more. If someone has the physiological and psychological ability to consent, and have proved this via behavior (like living on their own in a good example), which is judged by experts in brain development (doctors) and stages of cognitive development that accompanies brain development (psychologists), then their age doesn't really matter to the ethics of this. When a child today is abused they see both...but no determination is ever made as to the pertinent question (and it isn't an arbitrary age); CAN THIS PERSON CONSENT?

Some people can consent to contracts, whether business or relationships (like sex for example), when they are 14. I slept with a senior girl in high school who was just 18, and I was a 14 year old freshman. Are you telling me the day before she turned 18 she wasn't a molester, but the day after she was? Are you saying when we reverse the sexes the outrage should be greater? Are you saying I was molested by this woman? Statutorily "raped"? Nonsense, right?

The age of consent makes no sense because it assumes due to age alone one cannot consent, but some 14 year olds are physiologically capable and psychologically capable, while others are not. The fact some parent gets outraged makes no fucking difference at all, as anyone who can fully consent in an informed way can enter into contracts, and is an adult. The point of law is to stop VICTIMIZATION. A person who can consent and did is not a victim. Now, many can give consent but be incapable of it physiologically or psychologically, but when the accusation occurs, the justice system in the hypothetical will investigate, and the first thing to do is what they already do; they take the kid to a psychologist and physician. At this point the process is the same...except here they first determine whether this is indeed a kid or a young adult via scientific tests, perhaps brain scans, etc. to check ability to consent in an informed way fully or not. If they can consent in a fully informed way, like any other adult human, then their individual sovereignty is established. They can dress how they like, live where they like, work where they like, date who they like...despite their age, their parents can no longer rule them.

Why is age such a dumb way to judge this?

1. It doesn't determine if there is a victim or not. That requires establishing whether the person can fully consent as an adult or not. Age is irrelevant to this, although if we graphed it, it is very likely there will be a strong age correlation before the teen years, where we'll see divergence (before this point, basically 100% of kids can't consent fully).

2. Age is not why retarded adults can't consent if the mental issue is bad enough, why Alzheimer's patients are WAY above age but can't consent, etc. You can be ANY AGE and not be able to consent. So, it is CLEAR as clear can be: age is not how to determine if someone can consent to contracts, sexual or otherwise, or not. In all cases, whether kids, the mentally disturbed, the mentally handicapped, those with brain diseases, etc., the issue is one of ability to physiologically and psychologically consent in a fully informed way (which isn't to be confused with actually having full information).

 

[dannno]

Well, the FBI just raided Ian Freeman, so probably won't take them long to see all that Ron Paul stuff in his apartment, then check RP Forums, then see some of these sick freaks on here saying 40yr olds banging 14 year olds is a wonderful experience a kid will never forget, and Danno and crew might be getting a knock on the door.

The only person committing a crime in this thread apparently is you trying to slander me with things I've never remotely said.

 

[tod evans]

You're either a copsucker or you're not.

Just like with pedo's there's no middle ground here.

Merely approving of police action because you happen to believe in the cause still gives creedence to their existence and growth.

Common sense and logic dictate that you can support either government or freedom but not both.

As I've quite clearly stated I'm for repealing all laws that keep family members from protecting their young and empower government.

The theory you keep expounding about government regulations and enforcement being necessary to "protect the children" is insane.

Well, the FBI just raided Ian Freeman, so probably won't take them long to see all that Ron Paul stuff in his apartment, then check RP Forums, then see some of these sick freaks on here saying 40yr olds banging 14 year olds is a wonderful experience a kid will never forget, and Danno and crew might be getting a knock on the door.

Not usually a fan of the FBI, but can't say I lose any sleep over removing people who think that kind of sex is part of "Liberty". Listen to this guy, I'm just sure Ron Paul would be so proud of what he's inspired:

"Even at 14 I would still be holding annual candlelight vigils to this day. Of course, in my day as a teenager (and being male), having slept with an older woman would undoubtedly have been bragged about and then cherished amongst our fondest memories. While I certainly can't speak for women, are you as a male really going to claim that you would have been scarred for life? And that the woman should have been jailed for life? If so, you're lying to us and yourself."

 

[Brian4Liberty]

My cousin is 37 and has a 25yr old g/f, it is so stupid, me n him were talking about He-Man the other day, and she says "Oh yeah, I think my dad has some of those", not saying their relationship should be illegal but give me a break, there is no relationship there, he is horny and she has daddy issues.

Like I say, I'm seeing more and more why religions put out these strict laws, to keep sickos from gaining any ground in society, tho it obviously failed.

Excluding children from the conversation, you seem to be very concerned with the age gap. In many cases, a large gap is a problem. In some cases it is not. What is best for an individual seems to be your concern. That is a matter for the person and the people that advise that person, not a matter for laws. Unless you approve of someone like Bloomberg passing a ton of laws to force you to do what is best for you. Soda is not good for you, but a law about it is far worse than the soda. You can't legislate what is "best" for people.

Not sure which religions you are talking about. Most have examples in both the past and present where age is ignored, and ages that you find unacceptable are perfectly acceptable to their religions.

 

[acptulsa]

Am I the only one who's amused to see a paid spammer, who spent three quarters of his 435 posts talking up Trump and the other quarter reassuring us that he really is here because he knows who we are and agrees with us on most things, suddenly wake up three weeks later and say, 'Where the hell am I?

I can appreciate that maybe you came into this conversation without reading the whole discussion, but please appreciate I don't like having to write the same thing over and over. I already talked on the "grey area" issue, no, I don't say an 18yr old who had sex with a 17yr old 1 day away from his/her birthday is equitable to a 35yr old and 15 yr old - so some discretion should certainly be allowed.

You're falling down on the job, (mod edited the word spammer out). You aren't here to show hesitancy and ask questions. You're being paid to tell us how Trump is going to make America great again. So tell us. Tell us how Trump is a great Solomon with the patience of the angels, and will never tire of hearing the details of our little lives and sitting in wise judgment of our peccadilloes, so that we need never fear that the laws which are designed to protect our daughters from middle aged sexual predators will ruin the life of an eighteen year old kid who sends a sext to his girlfriend the night before her eighteenth birthday so she'll find it when she wakes up all grown up and legal, no matter how many middle aged prosecutors try to victimize him. Do tell us how much better the world will be in this department when the nation is filled with posters of a beady-eyed old brat with orange flip-top hair, and bearing the legend, 'Big Brother is Watching YOU.

Otherwise whomever you're working for--probably Clinton, since she has the most to gain by talking Republicans into shooting themselves in the foot (not that you know who you're actually working for, you probably don't)--is liable to deduct every post in this thread from your paycheck.

 

[jmdrake]

I would agreed with all you said accept that. Let me ask, if Danno wants to beat his kid is that none of my business as well?

Are you for laws against spanking? Because I'm not. But even if I was, the last time I checked people typically don't "consent" to a spanking. (Not unless there's something kinky going on.) Now if by "beating" you mean what most people, even spanking proponents, consider abuse, okay that's a different story. Well...yes and no. There's still the question of consent or lack their of.

Anyway, back to consent. I have not researched this, but it seems intuitively obvious that the current typical age of consent of 18 corresponds to the 20th century adoption of the idea that everybody should have at least a high school education. When many people went to work after the 8th grade (or didn't go to school at all), the age of consent was much lower. There was more "teenage pregnancy" but people thought nothing of it because the girls were married. Maybe as college becomes more and more the "bare minimum" of education the age of consent will rise to 21? That's already happened to alcohol and is happening with tobacco.

At my point in life, 18 is too young for me to be interested. Really under 30 is as well.

 

[Ender]

You are passing the buck, that is vague. At what point can my son or daughter say "I can do what I want"? What recourse do I have prior to that if I don't agree with the relationship?



Actually, I'd say it is more of this modern mentality that anything which is hard is suddenly impossible.



OK then, so no line? So 6yrs old? I mean, come on.




Never advocated that, this is kid sex man, give me a break, if ever there is a place where most anyone can agree force is OK it'd have to be this.



Must confess, you've completely lost me on that one.

Sex at 14 is NOT modern. A 14 yr old in the 1800's many times was married, had kids, and was plowing the fields and taking over the heavy duties/businesses of parents. Now when we read of people in other centuries who had young spouses we think they were pedophiles, when it was actually a norm.

Modern society has kept teens babies and then expects them to be suddenly "adult" on their 18th birthday.

 

[jmdrake]

I am using extreme examples because that is what the articles were about. As for me failing as a father that is just a big assumption. What if a man has a child with a wonderful woman and she dies of cancer and they spent every penny on her treatment and now he has to work his ass off to support his daughter on his own? She loves him, he loves her, but no getting around the reality that he won't be there much.

My issue is not so much with my daughter in that scenario, I can understand where she is coming from, but the 40yr old? Dude, I'm 40, no way in hell I would ever think it is even in the realm of possibility to get with a 16yr old, you have got to be kidding me. My cousin is 37 and has a 25yr old g/f, it is so stupid, me n him were talking about He-Man the other day, and she says "Oh yeah, I think my dad has some of those", not saying their relationship should be illegal but give me a break, there is no relationship there, he is horny and she has daddy issues.

A generation is 20 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation Your cousin is not a generation older than his girlfriend and unless he was having kids at 12 he is not old enough to be her father.

Like I say, I'm seeing more and more why religions put out these strict laws, to keep sickos from gaining any ground in society, tho it obviously failed.

Abraham was old as dirt when he and Sarah had Isaac. When she died he married another woman and had kids. That other woman was most likely young enough to be his daughter. While I don't think is a great idea for there to be a 20 year discrepancy between partners, I know of no religion that forbids it. Feel free to start your own.

 

[TheTexan]

On the bright side, at least we aren't Germany, where that shit is "normal"

 

[MelissaWV]

"I can appreciate that maybe you came into this conversation without reading the whole discussion, but please appreciate I don't like having to write the same thing over and over. I already talked on the "grey area" issue, no, I don't say an 18yr old who had sex with a 17yr old 1 day away from his/her birthday is equitable to a 35yr old and 15 yr old - so some discretion should certainly be allowed."

You keep saying this like it has some bearing on what we're telling you. You keep coming back to chronological age as if it is the ultimate deciding factor, when it's obviously not.

You're 40 and you would "no way" consider a sixteen year old, but would you consider a 25 year old? 20? 30? Is there some hard and fast line you are willing to draw in the sand, never to cross, regardless of how awesome the woman is? I guess we all have our own biases. I've been with someone who was still "underaged" (two years younger than I, but stupid me I ended up marrying him a little later). I've been in a lovely relationship with someone whose age is almost precisely between mine and my mother's, but you would decide based on chronology that loving someone 14 years my senior means I have daddy issues and he's just a horny old goat.

The deciding factor should be the factors to the actual case in question. I haven't seen anyone here say that it's never a crime to sleep with a preteen, teen, etc.. I've seen people try to figure out how automatically assuming there's a crime based on the ages of the people involved has ever helped anyone.

You brought up the example of a 30-something year old and a mid-teen. Most likely, these people met in a school or activities director type setting. The original push for statutory rape laws was about coercion, which is likely to exist in that relationship. The established adult has some kind of leverage over the other person. That's never good, and can easily extend into two adults (or two children, but that's rarer). You don't need to assign each party a number for it to be a crime. On the flipside, I know it's impossible for you to realize this but there IS the possibility that it's a consensual relationship that isn't doomed to "rape" status. It's a very, very slim chance, given the almost non-existent number of wholesome places such a relationship could begin, but it's not utterly unheard of.

If you were her dad, what you're saying is that you'd drag your daughter through an embarrassing and damaging process to put someone behind bars that she doesn't feel has wronged her, all for the "she'll forgive me later" tough love lesson which is actually more likely to leave her damaged, feeling dirty, and always second-guessing her judgement. THEN she'll have daddy issues.

It's seriously as if you're afraid of prosecuting cases based on their individual merits.

 

[Danke]

I'm gonna share a confidential formula, for a potential (successful) marriage:

Men, take your age, divide by 2 and add 7. That is the age of the woman you should be looking for, also here is an informative video: