Add Bachman to the Beck-Palin POS heap

[charrob]

i should not do this but i just saw the most hilarious video of palin-- please don't ban me but this is just too too funny to pass up... (the space between the '9' and '6' needs to be closed as does the space between the 'n' and the '2':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9 6n 2tsMksag

i'm sorry...this is just too too funny...

 

[TastyWheat]

"I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States... if we reject Israel, then there is a curse that comes into play... nations also receive blessings as they bless Israel."

Wow. Skipping Logicville and heading straight to Crazy Town, eh?

 

[klamath]

..

 

[jmdrake]

Why am I not surprised? The July 2, 2009 Tea Party in Nashville began with a prayer that concluded by saying "And Lord help us to support Israel through whom you will fulfill prophecy and we will receive our salvation".

Oh, and here's a flag display from the same event.

 

[jmdrake]

It's bad theology. And it's amazing how it spreads into politics.

YouTube - Hagee Heresy

 

[Peace&Freedom]

It's a neutral theology that got neo-conned over recent decades. The evangelicals were once independent of politics or GOP leadership influence, but then the neocons encouraged coalition building to integrate conservative factions, which amounted to co-opting and corrupting support for the reinstatement of national Israel into Israel can do no wrong, and must be defended regardless of the American interest.

We could win many of these Christians back if we engaged them on their ground (biblically), and reminded them using scripture that God regularly judged Israel for its sins and mistreatment of others. Or, by bringing up to Christians that God's plan for creating a Greater Israel in HIS way and on HIS schedule, doesn't give Israel a blank check to steal land, resources and sovereign rights from Arab peoples now. Otherwise, attacking their position is construed by them as an attack on scripture, so falls on deaf ears (it doesn't help that the attacks actually are often accompanied by an anti-religious attitude).

 

[Jonathon]

Michelle Bachman

It's bad theology. And it's amazing how it spreads into politics.

When I lived in Minnesota, I went to a forum about their version of "No Child Left Behind", which eventually went down in flames, and Michelle Bachman was one of the speakers opposed to the program.

Genesis 12.3 is widely misquoted to support flawed reasoning, especially among evangelicals, who for sixty years have been taught a dualistic philosophy of God's "chosen people", namely, Christians and Jews. The evangelical branch of Christianity is strongly prevalent in Minnesota where they worship Billy Graham, who was a purveyor of that philosophy.

I spent many years surrounded by that sub-culture of Christian mentality and most, and I believe Mrs. Bachman is among them, are simply misguided. I have many friends who are genuine Christians that have blinders on regarding the modern state of Israel, which has nothing in common with ancient Israel, except that it is located in the land of Canaan.

I, too, am a Christian, holding a degree in history and Christian studies. I could go into semantics about genealogies, ethnic migrations, and the general nature of the Jewish religion in the context of its historical roots, development, and manifestations. Many Christians outside academia are clueless about anything beyond the basic tenets of their profession of faith. Even then, scholars differ in opinion depending upon their particular beliefs, which adds nothing but confusion and fuel to the fire.

But regarding Genesis 12.3 that most Christians like Bachman reference to, the Bible is a curious read and care must be taken to personal interpretations. That particular verse, as I read it, does not pertain to any state of Israel. The assertion is that God is speaking to Abram (not yet Abraham), while he is still in Ur of the Chaldeans (Babylonia), but the blessings extend to his descendants. While there is room for that interpretation, the text does not imply that connotation. It is a commission by God to Abram, and it is an assurance granted to Abram by God that while in his faithfulness to leave his home land to take up residence in a foreign one already occupied, any of the then existing tribes/nations who would resist him was also resisting God, and conversely, any embracing Abram was embracing God. So, it has been interpreted that since God's word is immutable, that the land of Canaan was promised to Abraham and his progeny, that the Genesis 12.3 commission/blessing extends to Abraham's posterity.

This then leads to the continued misguided, but well-meaning, foreign policies espoused by evangelical circles, spurred on by patronizing politicians and zealous religious leaders.

There are plethora examples in the Old Testament, alone, that I could use diffuse the whole issue of the dualistic "chosen people" philosophy and the Genesis 12.3 "blessings/cursings" toward the state of Israel, but the best to address it would be Jesus, personally. So, I'll let him speak for himself:

Matthew 5:1-16 (King James Version)

Matthew 5

1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

*Excerpted from BibleGateway.com

Jesus' message parallels nicely with Ron Paul's, don't you think; or is it vice verse?

 

[Jonathon]

Neo-Conned Theology

It's a neutral theology that got neo-conned over recent decades. The evangelicals were once independent of politics or GOP leadership influence, but then the neocons encouraged coalition building to integrate conservative factions, which amounted to co-opting and corrupting support for the reinstatement of national Israel into Israel can do no wrong, and must be defended regardless of the American interest.

We could win many of these Christians back if we engaged them on their ground (biblically), and reminded them using scripture that God regularly judged Israel for its sins and mistreatment of others. Or, by bringing up to Christians that God's plan for creating a Greater Israel in HIS way and on HIS schedule, doesn't give Israel a blank check to steal land, resources and sovereign rights from Arab peoples now. Otherwise, attacking their position is construed by them as an attack on scripture, so falls on deaf ears (it doesn't help that the attacks actually are often accompanied by an anti-religious attitude).

A very concise summary of what I discovered also. Thanks for the post.

 

[YumYum]

Jonathon, thanks for sharing. I love that scripture. I also want to quote Jesus. Here he curses Israel. Does that mean Jesus is also cursed for cursing Jerusalem? At Matthew 23:37, Jesus condemns the Jews for not accepting him. He says they will remained cursed until they accept him:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look! Your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord' "

Israel has not accepted Christ, so how could the establishment of Israel by non-Christian Jews have been supported and approved by Christ? The Jews as a nation continue to reject Jesus (I don't), and yet they seem to enjoy being used as actors in the Evangelical's little end times drama.

I was praying this morning on this very issue, and something directed me to this scripture at Galatians 3:26-29, which says: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

There is no blessing from Christ for the Jews or anyone else unless they accept Jesus. Also, only those who belong to Christ are considered the "seed" of Abraham and are the heirs and beneficiaries of the promise. This includes Gentiles who accept Jesus, not just the Jews.

 

[Jonathon]

I forgot to add: The same people also mix or confuse God's commission to Abram with his commission to Moses, though an extension of Abram's, was distinct and separate. Abram was commissioned to resettle or colonize Canaan, while Moses was commissioned to reclaim Abraham's land and to eliminate the squatters. Nevertheless, for 40 years they were denied entry to the land and Moses died because of disobedience to God.

Joshua and Caleb led the incursion but did not eliminate the squatters as they were commissioned to do. As a result, God said the inhabitants of Canaan would remain indefinitely. The ancient Israelites intermarried with the other tribes/nations who then repopulated throughout the region.

Note: Abraham was not commissioned to eliminate the inhabitants. He lived among them and commerced with them.

Note: When Moses returned with the twelve tribes of Israel to Canaan, among those living there were Abraham's kin, descendants of Lot (his nephew: Moabites and Ammonites), Esau (Jacob's brother, Abraham's grandson: Edomites), and Ishmael (his first-born son by Hagar of Egypt: claimed by Islam as Patriarch). Of these three, only Esau was cursed (Read Malachi ch. 1). The others, including Ishmael, were blessed by God.

Note: It is possible that descendants of Ishmael and the Midianites could have intermarried. Moses married the daughter of Jethro, high priest of God of the Midianites.

 

[Jonathon]

Cursed Jesus?

Does that mean Jesus is also cursed for cursing Jerusalem?

In a way. (Paraphrased below)

"Cursed is the man who hangs on a tree."

"He became a curse that we might become justified in him" Propitiation

"While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

 

[Jonathon]

Jonathon, thanks for sharing. I love that scripture. I also want to quote Jesus. Here he curses Israel. Does that mean Jesus is also cursed for cursing Jerusalem? At Matthew 23:37, Jesus condemns the Jews for not accepting him. He says they will remained cursed until they accept him:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look! Your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord' "

Israel has not accepted Christ, so how could the establishment of Israel by non-Christian Jews have been supported and approved by Christ? The Jews as a nation continue to reject Jesus (I don't), and yet they seem to enjoy being used as actors in the Evangelical's little end times drama.

I was praying this morning on this very issue, and something directed me to this scripture at Galatians 3:26-29, which says: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

There is no blessing from Christ for the Jews or anyone else unless they accept Jesus. Also, only those who belong to Christ are considered the "seed" of Abraham and are the heirs and beneficiaries of the promise. This includes Gentiles who accept Jesus, not just the Jews.

Galatians 3:26-29, which says: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

I was thinking the same thing, even as I was typing.

 

[TruckinMike]

It's bad theology. And it's amazing how it spreads into politics.

Yep, and it comes from letting other people interpret the Bible for you.

TMike

 

[Anti Federalist]

That made me ill.

Why am I not surprised? The July 2, 2009 Tea Party in Nashville began with a prayer that concluded by saying "And Lord help us to support Israel through whom you will fulfill prophecy and we will receive our salvation".

Oh, and here's a flag display from the same event.

 

[jmdrake]

Galatians 3:26-29, which says: "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

I was thinking the same thing, even as I was typing.

Johnathan, YumYum and others great insights! This needs to be consolidated into a single Bible study that can be passed out at future tea parties.

 

[Derek]

For the record, I live in Minnesota, am familiar with Bachmann and have actually met her before. She is wrong about Israel and many foreign policy issues, but when it comes to most domestic and spending issues, and defending the Constitution, you're not going to find many people in Congress better than her. She's not quite Ron Paul, but she's fairly close.