A world without work is coming – it could be utopia or it could be hell

[Anti Federalist]

Just a nice little joke this evening. (besides, if my wife participated in these forums, I'm sure I'd say the same thing.)

Back on topic, though. I still maintain that technology is a net positive and will contribute to more freedom. We just gotta keep government out of the way. But for every job lost to technology, another 1.1 is created somewhere else - it's just not that easy to see because it didn't exist before. I'm an optimist by nature - the future is bright.

 

[DamianTV]

Just reading the headline, I would say HELL because too many Banks and Corporations will continue to demand money from people, and the people do not have the power to print money as banks do.

And for the record, a world without work already exists, albeit not for everyone. The rich already think of us as disposable human robots.

 

[donnay]

LOL Ouch...

I honestly would not know...I am happily married and miss my wife and children very much while away from them.

You'd think being on the tip of the spear of whole ways of life being rendered null and void (seafaring being the world's second oldest profession) I'd look forward to being jobless, but I'm not.

Humans measure their self worth by the work they accomplish.

Good save,

Maybe if CaptUSA didn't have such a NEGATIVE outlook his future could be brighter.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Just a nice little joke this evening. (besides, if my wife participated in these forums, I'm sure I'd say the same thing.)

Back on topic, though. I still maintain that technology is a net positive and will contribute to more freedom. We just gotta keep government out of the way. But for every job lost to technology, another 1.1 is created somewhere else - it's just not that easy to see because it didn't exist before. I'm an optimist by nature - the future is bright.

 

[timosman]

Just a nice little joke this evening. (besides, if my wife participated in these forums, I'm sure I'd say the same thing.)

Back on topic, though. I still maintain that technology is a net positive and will contribute to more freedom. We just gotta keep government out of the way. But for every job lost to technology, another 1.1 is created somewhere else - it's just not that easy to see because it didn't exist before. I'm an optimist by nature - the future is bright.

The progress is being made! Don't you live better than 16 years ago?

 

[CaptUSA]

The progress is being made! Don't you live better than 16 years ago?

I live better than I did 16 minutes ago!

 

[heavenlyboy34]

n/m, AF beat me to it.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Good save

Not a "save".

I mean it.

 

[donnay]

Not a "save".

I mean it.

I know you do.

 

[timosman]

Humans measure their self worth by the work they accomplish.

Some measure by the work they avoid doing. Have somebody else sweat. Work smarter not harder.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I need to add: Marriage is awesome!

The marriage jokes people tell, for the most part I frankly don't relate to. CaptUSA, at least yours was funny! But I think maybe people are doing it wrong, if there's that much conflict and disharmony in their marriages. There's no need for that! Find someone good, and then relax and live life! We humans are naturally good at getting along, it's a built-in skill, just let it happen and don't mess it up by selfishness or trying to change the other person.

So anyway, go build a happy marriage and you will be doing a big part, making a very big contribution, to saving civilization.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Who will keep the robots running? Or will we have robots for that too?

Robots and robots (and turtles), all the way down.

 

[PierzStyx]

Well the Greeks did collapse(ish), or they were in the middle of doing so and would have, but that was cut short, softened, and cushioned by being subsumed into the Roman civilization.

Considering the Romans just became knock-off Greeks, Greek civilization didn't go anywhere.

But I was talking about: Babylon, Persia, and on and on, all these middle-eastern civs going all the way back to Sumeria.

You mean some of the oldest civilizations in history? Civilization was invented in four places: Egypt, Mesopotamia, the Indus River Valley, and China on the Yangtze.

The Eastern Empire denizens were (and are) their descendants. They had "S" -- the Stability factor. They had had it for a loooong time. Thus, the Eastern Empire never reached the greatest heights -- all the really cool stuff was done in the West --

I'm pretty sure you don't know much about Eastern history to say this. For example, the Code of Justinian, the legal code developed by Eastern Emperor Justinian I, became a foundational legal code for Eastern and Western Europe as well as North Africa and the Middle East. The whole idea of personal property rights, that you own what you have and when people take it that is stealing, comes from Justinian. It is the big reason for the European switch over from the Anglo-Saxon idea of possession equals rights, that is if you can take it and keep it then you own it. Much of teh real "cool stuff" in the West just comes from somewhere else.

and they also never collapsed at all. The Empire as a polity ended, sure, but who cares, life continued on, meet the new boss, same as the old.

True. There was some conflict but Islam is ultimately more tolerant of Christianity than Christianity is of Islam.

There was no collapse. Just like India was occupied by England for a while (and before that everybody else who came along, one by one).

Actually, India has only be conquered a handful of times throughout history. Sections of northern Inida sometimes got hit, but the whole of India was only ever ruled by outsiders a very small number of times. Indian civilization and culture is one of the oldest and continuous in the world.

But India never collapsed. Well, they did: once. You only get to collapse once. Their really creative, interesting civ catastropically collapsed. You only get to have one brilliant, creative, disruptive civ.

This is completely not true.

Response sin bold.

 

[Ender]

Get rid of The Matrix and let men live as they choose.

"WORK" is a POV- the American Dream is a hoax forced on citizens to make them compliant factory workers.

Not the "work" or world I want.

 

[donnay]

Get rid of The Matrix and let men live as they choose.

"WORK" is a POV- the American Dream is a hoax forced on citizens to make them compliant factory workers.

Not the "work" or world I want.

Amen.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Relevant (from olden times):

Here is an interesting video:



It actually is very interesting. I liked seeing all the robots and technological progress. I have always been of the mind that there will always be plenty of jobs, because there will always be plenty of human desires. And so someone has to fulfill those desires.

And that's true as far as it goes.

But I was listening to an episode of the Tom Woods Show recently where he talks about how in the last days of the Roman Republic there were returning soldiers who came back after years of far-flung campaigns and found their fields ruined and useless, and so they had to sell their land. They went into the cities to find work, but there had to compete against slaves and they couldn't, for the most part. They couldn't find any productive work. And so you got this restless, discontented mass of landless, jobless, rootless men. It caused big problems and led to the downfall of Rome -- the end of the Republic and the formation of the Empire. Every good historian has to have a theory about why Rome fell, and so now we know Tom's. And it's a pretty good theory. I found it interesting.

And so then when I ran across this video, I actually watched it, and thought of it in light of Tom's commentary on the unemployable hordes of Rome. Hmmm.

Here's the Tom Woods episode. Starting at 20:50.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Response sin bold.

Yes, it is a sin to not respond properly.

Seriously, you make it hard for people to take you, well, seriously, by not learning the basic (really basic!) communication protocols of the medium you're attempting to communicate in.

Don't make me give you a condescending tutorial. Even though you seem to have lately decided you now disagree with me on everything, I still like you too much for that. Step it up.

Considering the Romans just became knock-off Greeks, Greek civilization didn't go anywhere.

Oh!!

Really?

That must be why I wrote exactly that.

You mean some of the oldest civilizations in history? Civilization was invented in four places: Egypt, Mesopotamia, the Indus River Valley, and China on the Yangtze.

Yes, Pierz, those are the ones I mean! Imagine that. That's why I typed their names. You seem to be just full of historical Trivial Pursuit cards. At least, a limited number of them, and just itching for any hook to throw them out there. Could you tell me what "barbarian" means again? And where did the word "Eureka!" come from? I'm sure this random nugget-dropping pedagogical technique is a hit with the kids and makes them duly and properly impressed.

I'm pretty sure you don't know much about Eastern history to say this.

I already admitted to not knowing a lot about history. So if you want to slam my credibility, I already handed you the gun. It is my belief that history is much too big a place for any of us to know very much about it, percentage-wise. I don't even know very much about the present! But, maybe that's just my own shortcoming and weakness and others really do know a large proportion of it, and so that's why I just stick to saying that I don't know much history. Maybe you very well might, and if so good for you!

For example, the Code of Justinian, the legal code developed by Eastern Emperor Justinian I, became a foundational legal code for Eastern and Western Europe as well as North Africa and the Middle East.

Uh huh. And upon what was it based?

True. There was some conflict but Islam is ultimately more tolerant of Christianity than Christianity is of Islam.

Thank you for the anti-Christianity infomercial. Can't let any opp pass for one of those, now can we?

Actually, India has only be conquered a handful of times throughout history. Sections of northern India sometimes got hit, but the whole of India was only ever ruled by outsiders a very small number of times. Indian civilization and culture is one of the oldest and continuous in the world.

India was ruled by a whole succession of foreigners. And they did not particularly care. For a while there every two-bit conquestor in the region and those surrounding easily took and ruled India for a while. Oh, no, no, no, only northern India you say? Oh, you mean the only part anyone cared about? So unless you go bother the Tamils it doesn't count? Well, any excuse to tell yourself that I'm wrong, I suppose.

You only get to collapse once. You only get to have one brilliant, creative, disruptive civ.

This is completely not true.

Example to the contrary then? I'm always willing -- and hopeful! -- to be challenged competently. And I always will re-think and change my views to be in accordance with the facts and the truth.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Example to the contrary then? I'm always willing -- and hopeful! -- to be challenged competently. And I always will re-think and change my views to be in accordance with the facts and the truth.

Any examples to contradict me? I sincerely welcome and invite any devastating, brilliant, halfway decent, or even mildly interesting attempt to show me why any of the things I think, are things not true. And "completely not true" - this should be a piece of cake for you! You should be brimming with examples, just off the top of your head, eh!

 

[TheTexan]

Maybe we can make "no more work" a reality with Jill Stein 2024

 

[opal]

I can think of a few professions and pseudo professions that would be hard pressed to be replaced by robots - actors, comedians, scientists, wet nurses and sperm donors.