5 Reasons to Abandon Politics

[cjm]

Actually, again that's not quite right.

Laws are only brought about through the political process. Enforcement of those laws only exists through the political process. Politicians determine policy, and voters determine which politicians get to set policy. See two posts above in bold for more details, but to bring about change in the law and change in the government, politics is the only way to do it (one can try going through the courts, but that is inherently political too plus they tend to favor the government).

I think you missed my point. I am not disagreeing that ultimately a political process determines laws and governance. I'm saying people do not have to participate in campaigns or parties to spread the message of liberty. One can do that at the garden club, the PTA, or swim team meets as well. Those informal conversations outside of a political campaign are just as important as electoral politics. Or maybe I am misunderstanding you? Are you suggesting that the liberty message needs to be promoted only through the political process? If so, I disagree.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Thosse are factors, but the media doesn't pass laws.

Right, those that the media promotes and get elected do. Do you think Ron Paul would have had a good chance of being our president right now if the media had given him fair coverage? Pretty big impact, huh?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

And it was through the political system for political purposes.

Yes indeed we are trending upwards, but is it at the equal or faster pace than statism is trending upwards too? I don't know.

But getting people like Rand and Amash and Massie and Mike Lee, and hopefully soon to be others, elected on the federal level, and then the dozens if not hundreds of supporters elected into local and state offices will continue to turn the tide. We're still outnumbered, but a lot of times in a Senatorial body 1 person can do quite a bit to stop legislative atrocities as Rand has proven.

We must continue to work harder and get more like-minded people into positions of power.

We have the blueprint that works right before our eyes, which you just described. It's vexing how people cannot see the opportunity we have now. Before Ron Paul and the internet gathering like-minded, liberty loving people in a productive manner was extremely difficult, if not impossible. The Evangelicals and the so-called silent majority were able to do it in the 80's because they had places to gather and congregate amongst like-minded people, namely their churches and vast networks. They turned that into real political force to be reckoned with which is still felt to this day. We have the same opportunity now if we're smart enough to see that there's strength in numbers. The enemies of liberty would love for all of us to drop out so they can operate like a mushroom in the dark and exploit us without hindrance.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

"Matt Collins understands the way this game is played."

 

[heavenlyboy34]

We have the blueprint that works right before our eyes, which you just described. It's vexing how people cannot see the opportunity we have now. Before Ron Paul and the internet gathering like-minded, liberty loving people in a productive manner was extremely difficult, if not impossible. The Evangelicals and the so-called silent majority were able to do it in the 80's because they had places to gather and congregate amongst like-minded people, namely their churches and vast networks. They turned that into real political force to be reckoned with which is still felt to this day. We have the same opportunity now if we're smart enough to see that there's strength in numbers. The enemies of liberty would love for all of us to drop out so they can operate like a mushroom in the dark and exploit us without hindrance.

Does it matter having a blueprint if all you can build with it is a structure that doesn't work?

 

[IDefendThePlatform]

The trick is to do both.

The argument we've been having is how best to use one's limited time and resources. "Both" is an option but it siphons resources and undermines the more effective option of "agorism."


The main problems with trying to do both have to do with sanctifying the existence of government. Once you've agreed that govt owns at least part of you, you already done 90% of what the statists need to keep pummeling you with their "laws."


One of the major promises of agorism, as evidenced by the OP, is that it can be effective on an individual basis. People who engage in agorism can achieve much, much more freedom in their lives than they could by using that time and energy to try to influence the political process by a fraction of a percent. As more and more people realize this, more and people will engage in agorism, which will bring about freedom much more quickly and effectively than voting ever could.

 

[IDefendThePlatform]

Stop voting
Don't endorse political candidates
Don't participate in any political or civil campaign
Refuse to participate in the hero cult of police and military
Turn your TV off
Homeschool your kids or send them to a private school
Leave or don't join nationalistic organizations (e.g. Boy Scouts)
Don't give to "charities" or funds that support civic organizations (encourage private enterprise instead)
Grow your own food
Barter more
Reduce your debt

Shall I go on? There's lots of little practical steps one can take and it will begin to have a cumulative effect.

Great list, +rep. Ill add a few that I like that might appeal to the more politically active members we have here:

Donate the money you would have sent to politicians to liberty-minded podcasters or talk radio hosts like Ian and Mark at FreeTalkLive
Buy some bitcoin
Promote bitcoin usage at your local small businesses and with friends
Instead of handing out flyers encouraging people to vote for one or the other politician, hand out flyers on why voting is a sham
Promote Bastiat's "The Law" (Ron Paul's favorite book) and other liberty minded philosophical literature by donating them to the local library or schools, or by writing quality, positive reviews on Amazon

 

[helmuth_hubener]

How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World is a Handbook for Personal Liberty showing you how to use libertarian principles to make your life much freer right now. It presents a unique libertarian view of morality, government, society, and human nature. Part I identifies the mental traps that are so easy to fall into traps that prevent you from being as free as you could be. Part II provides specific techniques you can use today to obtain greater freedom from government, from societal restrictions, and from business, personal, and family problems. Part III shows how to make necessary changes to a freer life right now.

While Harry waited and hoped for a free society, he made sure that his own life was as free and happy as possible. Using the same libertarian principles that would underlie a free society, he created a successful and joyous life for himself and his family. He put these principles and techniques into his book, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World. In the book you'll find ways to obtain greater freedom from government, freedom from social restrictions, freedom from business problems, personal problems, family problems, and freedom from the treadmill.

How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World will not only put you on the path to a freer, happier life, it will inspire almost anyone to take greater responsibility for his own life to quit focusing on the shortcomings of others and use the sovereignty one does have to take control of one's own life and make the most of it. How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World can make your life much freer and happier.

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Get torrent file

 

[Matthew5]

Great list, +rep. Ill add a few that I like that might appeal to the more politically active members we have here:

Donate the money you would have sent to politicians to liberty-minded podcasters or talk radio hosts like Ian and Mark at FreeTalkLive
Buy some bitcoin
Promote bitcoin usage at your local small businesses and with friends
Instead of handing out flyers encouraging people to vote for one or the other politician, hand out flyers on why voting is a sham
Promote Bastiat's "The Law" (Ron Paul's favorite book) and other liberty minded philosophical literature by donating them to the local library or schools, or by writing quality, positive reviews on Amazon

Good list, education of others is a big factor and is under utilized.

 

[Matthew5]

I have yet to see the politicos justify politics on a moral level, only "pragmatic" reasons. The amoral nature of our political system is clear, so how does one justify participation in it? To get the boogie man first (isn't that neocon logic)? We have a duty? It's the most effective method to achieve a goal (ends justify means)?

 

[cjm]

The amoral nature of our political system is clear, so how does one justify participation in it?

So you didn't lift a finger for Ron Paul? That's hard core.

 

[familydog]

In the mean time I can get more freedom than I have now by pushing around elected officials through the political process.

Has this actually worked? The American government started out as the smallest and most decentralized government in history. It is now the largest, most abusive and destructive government in history. There is absolutely no empirical evidence to suggest that politiking will change anything.

 

[cjm]

There is absolutely no empirical evidence to suggest that politiking will change anything.

Just a couple years ago, it was illegal in Virginia to concealed-carry in restaurants that served alcohol. Now it is legal.

 

[Matt Collins]

Has this actually worked?

Yes, I've done it a few times. And I've seen it done many times.

One example is that I singlehandidly killed a DNA bill in Tennessee that our Lt Governor was trying to ram through. He wanted everyone arrested for a felony to have their DNA stored in a database. I sent out his personal cell phone number to my entire e-mail list, and a few weeks later he killed the bill.

There is absolutely no empirical evidence to suggest that politiking will change anything.

Rand has stopped a lot of crap from coming through the Senate simply by forcing a roll call vote and getting the Senators on record. And it is not hard to stop stuff on the state / local level if you are able to mobilize a few dozen or a few hundred phone calls.



It would be so nice if people would quit with their defeatist attitude, get out from behind the computer, and actually go do something to stop the government from encroaching on liberty.

 

[Matt Collins]

The main problems with trying to do both have to do with sanctifying the existence of government.

The government doesn't need your sanctifying to exist. It is going to do bad things to you, steal your money, lock you up, take your property, etc whether you give it permission to or not.


"consent of the governed" is a myth.


They have more guns, therefore they rule. That isn't going to change any time soon, but we can have an influence on where those guns are pointed, and if/when they are used by changing the behavior of the elected officials. You do that through applying pressure and threatening their re-elections.

One of the major promises of agorism, as evidenced by the OP, is that it can be effective on an individual basis. People who engage in agorism can achieve much, much more freedom in their lives than they could by using that time and energy to try to influence the political process by a fraction of a percent. As more and more people realize this, more and people will engage in agorism, which will bring about freedom much more quickly and effectively than voting ever could.

False premise, the government will run right over you unless you've got political power.

 

[Matt Collins]

Right, those that the media promotes and get elected do. Do you think Ron Paul would have had a good chance of being our president right now if the media had given him fair coverage? Pretty big impact, huh?

No, because Ron wasn't that electable. The media obviously was doing everything they could to hurt him, but even if they had given him fair coverage, I think it would've been unlikely for him to have been able to become President.

But there are ways to handle the media, and in many cases, you can just go around them. For most state and local races, the media is largely irrelevant and takes a back seat to precinct organizing, direct mail, and canvassing.

 

[Matt Collins]

I'm saying people do not have to participate in campaigns or parties to spread the message of liberty.

I completely agree. But what's the point of spreading the message of liberty but then not acting on it? If everyone knows about liberty, how does that help us if no one is doing anything about a lack of liberty?

We don't need to educate people as much as we need to mobilize them. It's called the education fallacy.

This page explains why trying to educate people about liberty is a failing proposition:
http://training4liberty.org/facl2/info.htm#


Majorities are not needed, we only have to be able to put enough pressure at the right time on the right people, and we can do what we want. In most state legislatures, a dozen phone calls on a bill can change their vote.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Just a couple years ago, it was illegal in Virginia to concealed-carry in restaurants that served alcohol. Now it is legal.

This is anecdotal, not empirical.

 

[Matt Collins]

Well, that skips a lot of stuff in between. Certainly the 2008 Ron Paul campaign was a great leap forward, but it didn't spring out of the brow of Zeus. Why did it go differently than the 1988 campaign of, oh yeah, the same person, Ron Paul? Was it just some brilliant tactical details, like him running as a Republican instead of a Libertarian, or us doing individual Internet marketing? No. It was that there were a lot more of us! Peer-to-peer don't work if there ain't no peers!

I would say that being a Republican was the biggest part of it, the Internet being the second contributing factor.

There were a lot of people who thought like we did, but no one knew how many who who were. And I think the liberty movement was grown also because of the Internet, more people started to be able to envision a world with less government because the freedom that the Internet allowed.

In the meantime, between 1988 and 2008, many millions of people had been exposed to and tens of thousands converted to libertarianism by the LP and their many candidates like Harry Browne, libertarian columnists like Joe Sobran and Dave Barry (I loved Dave Barry!), libertarian novelists like L. Neil Smith and F. Paul Wilson (and really a disproportionate of the good sci-fi writers out there are libertarian or are at least writing books with libertarian themes like Heinlein), John Stossel was there doing specials on libertarian ideas on prime-time national TV, and of course there's always Ayn Rand in the background, slowly converting thousands posthumously with Atlas Shrugged. Especially in the 90s, many prominent people publicly stated that they were libertarians, such as actors Clint Eastwood, Drew Carey, and Kurt Russell, TV anchor Hugh Downs, radiomen Art Bell, Larry Elder, Howard Stern, and Neal Boortz (and Walter Williams subbing for Rush), and many others, and the LP News always liked telling me about all of them as proof that victory was just around the corner.

Yes, the good old days. I subscribed to The Advocates newsletter, and also watched Badnarik's videos and listened to Harry Browne's podcasts.


Brian Doherty has a book out out about this called Radicals for Capitalism which details the history of the liberty movement. I've got it but haven't read it yet.

The most important place to fight the government, long term, is through movement-building.

I can agree with that. But you have to have some short term victories, and big lists. And you use that to affect policy and get your people elected.

The libertarian movement is a threat to the government. Nothing else is. Political action can grow the movement, if it is used as a platform for someone with integrity and the ability to communicate the ideas of liberty, someone like Ron Paul. But lots of other things can also grow the movement and make it stronger.

Yes, but the movement doesn't need to grow in order to affect policy now. The movement doesn't need to grow in order to get our candidates elected. If Rand becomes Prez in 2016 for example, it won't be only because of the liberty movement, we're not strong enough to get him elected. So he has to broaden his base a bit. He's still a liberty guy, but he has to market to others besides us.

 

[cjm]

I completely agree. But what's the point of spreading the message of liberty but then not acting on it? If everyone knows about liberty, how does that help us if no one is doing anything about a lack of liberty?

That's not what I said. I said that education and politics are both important. I encourage those that are interested to participate in both. If someone is disinterested in politics, they should keep spreading the message so that those working the political side will have a more receptive audience.