5 Reasons to Abandon Politics

[silverhandorder]

If the intent is for a group of dyed in the wool anarchists to have a place to talk about their projects, that is fine but if the intent like this thread title is to recruit new and discourage current liberty voters then it becomes counter to the goals of the forum.
Should Bryan set up a socialist forum that has the intention to discourage libertarian Republican turnout and regularly have those members post negative comments about the candidates Bryan choose to support?

What we say will have no effect on those who have political fewer. It is for when those people get finally discouraged that what we say will look attractive to them. Honestly anti activism people generally lurk and do not interfere with the forum during elections.

edit: as far as negativity I would worry more about trolls.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

If the intent is for a group of dyed in the wool anarchists to have a place to talk about their projects, that is fine but if the intent like this thread title is to recruit new and discourage current liberty voters then it becomes counter to the goals of the forum.
Should Bryan set up a socialist forum that has the intention to discourage libertarian Republican turnout and regularly have those members post negative comments about the candidates Bryan choose to support?

No, that would fall under "philosophy" as well on RPFs. We've had our share of LVT socialists and such in the past.

 

[LibertyEagle]

This corner of the forest is designed especially for anti-political people. If this had been started in GP or something, I could see why Bryan would be upset.

Where did you get that idea? No, it's not. It's for discussions of political philosophy.

 

[Matthew5]

So, guys, I guess you believe that Ron Paul was wrong all along, eh?

That's allowable...even on RPF.

 

[Matthew5]

What we say will have no effect on those who have political fewer. It is for when those people get finally discouraged that what we say will look attractive to them. Honestly anti activism people generally lurk and do not interfere with the forum during elections.

edit: as far as negativity I would worry more about trolls.

I've seen the anarchists be a fairly tame bunch. This subforum seems to be an appropriate place for the message. In fact, many would credit Dr. Paul for leading them to anarchy.

 

[Matthew5]

Well anarchists enjoy it while you can because I really don't think the owner of the RP forums will look to lightly on people actively condemning and promoting the idea to drop out of electoral politics on a forum set up specifically to elect people. It is perfectly fine to be personally disgusted with politics and not want to participate but when it is counter to the objective of the forum something is going to give when the elections roll around.
When you are actively attempting to suppress liberty voter turnout and destroy enthusiasm for candidates Byran is actively trying to get elected don't be surprised if your freedom to use his server space doesn't get curtailed.

And how is threads like "Bestest Picture Thread Evvver" and forums like Science and Hot Topics relevant to getting people elected?

They're not. It's just a space for liberty lovers to express common interests. Many fans of Dr. Paul who generally get along with other fans have congregated here. There's not a concentrated movement to undermine the candidate forums or even General Politics, it's mainly kept to the fringes of Liberty Forest. Anarchists are waking people up too...many that could be soft on anarchy views and end up voting in elections.

It's such a small minority of the forums and countering views are a positive influence, if not to sharpen your beliefs.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Where did you get that idea? No, it's not. It's for discussions of political philosophy.

Well, all the anarchy stuff is dumped here when it's put in general politics and other more visible forums. I wasn't paying much attention, but it was my impression that this sub forum was created for the anarchist topics (and others that aren't suitable for the major forums that would turn off visitors just looking for RP info/discussion).

 

[klamath]

And how is threads like "Bestest Picture Thread Evvver" and forums like Science and Hot Topics relevant to getting people elected?

They're not. It's just a space for liberty lovers to express common interests. Many fans of Dr. Paul who generally get along with other fans have congregated here. There's not a concentrated movement to undermine the candidate forums or even General Politics, it's mainly kept to the fringes of Liberty Forest. Anarchists are waking people up too...many that could be soft on anarchy views and end up voting in elections.

It's such a small minority of the forums and countering views are a positive influence, if not to sharpen your beliefs.

It is NOT whether it is relevant it is whether it is actually intentionally undermining the intent of the forums. Political activism. This thread title is intentionally aimed at undermining Bryan's intent.

 

[Matthew5]

It is NOT whether it is relevant it is whether it is actually intentionally undermining the intent of the forums. Political activism. This thread title is intentionally aimed at undermining Bryan's intent.

Dissent and differing opinions forces you to think critically about what you do. Again, we're not some major force seeking to undermine the entire mission of this site; just a small voice in a sub-forum, operating within the parameters given and trying to open up discussion and debate of how politics affect liberty.

If your faith is so weak that it is shaken by criticism, then the fault isn't in the critic, it's in the believer.

 

[cjm]

Collins is just a pathetic hanger-on with no credibility. What's sad though, is the vocal few here who are either shills or really do ascribe to Machiavellianism.

Seriously? 129 posts in this thread before your participation and you choose to jump in and call names? That's not the best way to promote your cause.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

So, guys, I guess you believe that Ron Paul was wrong all along, eh?



http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/sep/22/00019/

His entire farewell speech was in firm opposition to that quote. He either changed his mind since then, or he walked the path of least resistance in that interview.

 

[familydog]

The claim in question was:

I could cite more examples of law changes that have favored liberty, but one example is enough to refute this particular claim.

Now if the claim was "There is absolutely no empirical evidence to suggest that politiking will change anything to my satisfaction" then you are correct. I cannot prove that political solutions will ever satisfy everyone. But I never made that claim. My claim is that politics is an avenue to promote liberty and make society freer. There is plenty of evidence for this. Some say the time and effort required to make small changes isn't worth it. I'm ok with that. Value is subjective. It is worth it to other people. I applaud those who work hard in politics for small changes as well as those that work hard in their personal lives to help their neighbors understand liberty. Both are needed. And if anyone disagrees with this, that's fine, we can agree to disagree.

If politics can't make each and every individual's lives more free, it isn't worth doing. Your evidence fails on every level. It does nothing to prove that politics has created more freedom in my life. If you're going to promote an involuntary system, it damn well better serve the needs of each and every person. But herein lies the problem: politics and government is a win-lose system. When you win, someone else loses. There is no room for negotiating peaceful and voluntary results.

I've made my peace with activists who wish to use the violence of government to further their agendas. I have no room in my life for begging psychopaths for little dribbles of liberty that they had no moral right to steal in the first place.

 

[Matt Collins]

That someone else is going to have to fight with another someone else for that power. Yes I want them to waste their time on that while "liberty" movement outgrows government in power.

I'd rather win back our liberty through peaceful political methods, not through a violent conflict.

 

[Matt Collins]

If the intent is for a group of dyed in the wool anarchists to have a place to talk about their projects, that is fine but if the intent like this thread title is to recruit new and discourage current liberty voters then it becomes counter to the goals of the forum.

No, I disagree. I think this is an important debate and discussion we are having here, and I think it should be aired out like we're doing. Even if the people who argue against me are completely wrong they should still be able to discuss and debate their thoughts in an articulate manner.

 

[Matthew5]

I'd rather win back our liberty through peaceful political methods, not through a violent conflict.

Do you feel that peaceful means can also exist outside of politics?

 

[IDefendThePlatform]

The government doesn't need your sanctifying to exist. It is going to do bad things to you, steal your money, lock you up, take your property, etc whether you give it permission to or not.

And it will do bad things to you whether you ask it not to through the political process or not. The point of our debate is, What is the most effective use of your time and resources to maximize liberty?
You say:
Sending emails to politicians
Handing out flyers
Making phone calls

I say:
Withdrawing consent
Spreading the message of the illegitimacy of the state
Using the time and money you saved from not doing politics to help support the small businesses that step up to replace the role of government, like those in this story about Detroit:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/4...ave-done-to-detroit-and-it-s-freaking-awesome


We would be much farther away from a free society if the entrepreneurs in that story had used their time to run for political office rather than create those businesses.

 

[Matt Collins]

Do you feel that peaceful means can also exist outside of politics?

All human interaction is political. And at the end of the day it's all about power and force (the two are not the same thing).

 

[Matt Collins]

And it will do bad things to you whether you ask it not to through the political process or not.

If you posses political power you are a bit more insulated from the government's actions. You're less likely to be run over the more power you have.

The point of our debate is, What is the most effective use of your time and resources to maximize liberty?
You say:
Sending emails to politicians
Handing out flyers
Making phone calls

Working within the political process is the only thing that slows down the government.

I say:
Withdrawing consent
Spreading the message of the illegitimacy of the state

And that doesn't accomplish anything other than making us feel good.

 

[Matthew5]

All human interaction is political. And at the end of the day it's all about power and force (the two are not the same thing).

Ok, let me rephrase it...in context of this discussion, that is the American political structure, do you see peaceful means existing outside of it?

 

[Matthew5]

And that doesn't accomplish anything other than making us feel good.

And what you may call "feeling good", others call standing on principle (a concept very much lost on politicians ).