45 years in jail time for voluntary bartering!

[LibForestPaul]

Is there a reason why these libertarians like poking the sickly jackals...
could have called it LibertySchilling, Liberty Ounce, Liberty Silver...

 

[Mesogen]

They really should have made those coins square or triangle or something, so that they would in no way whatsoever look like coins minted by the US government.

I think the Liberty Dollar's main problem is that it's called "dollar."

Make the coins octagons or something and call it a Liberty. "Yes sir that costs 2 Liberties."


edit: I see LibForestPaul beat me to it.

 

[Mesogen]

I would pay worthless FED notes to be on this jury!!! Can you imagine! hehe

Hey if you need to get rid you some of those worthless FRN's I can give you my address and you can mail them to me. I'll pay for all the shipping and handling.

 

[jmlfod87]

“Consumers were using their hard-earned money to buy goods and services, then getting fake change in return.”

Are you serious? This guy works for the FBI?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Why don't they call them "Liberty Clams" so at least the gov cannot claim they are "fake dollars."

This would have been a good idea IMHO. Or better yet, just put material quality and weight like bullion.

I'm not sure what to think about this story at this point. The guy stamps "$50" onto $15 worth of silver. Apparently they are difficult to distinguish from a silver eagle, and some stores have been taking them at face value.

If the face value reflected the melt value I'd tell the FedGov to go stick it.

But If I was the owner of some shop and my clerk took a $15 trinket and gave out $50 worth of change, I'd be pissed.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

You have to read carefully- the charges are (per the piece) "charged with uttering and passing coins resembling genuine U.S. coins and intended for use as money, mail fraud and selling and possessing Liberty Dollar coins with intent to defraud."

So the claim isn't so much that they had them or using then as much as it is how it was claimed they were using them, ie: trying to defraud people.

So the question is- what is the states evidence that they were being dishonest with intent to defraud others with their use? What exactly did they say?

Obviously this smells bad.

Apparently, I am hearing anecdotal evidence here in NC now, people ARE in fact passing them off as US currency. Someone pays $25 for $15 worth of silver, and then spends them wherever clerks are likely to accept them at the $50 face value.

That actually IS fraud -- at least on the part of the people who are passing them. I'm not sure how the case can be made against NotHouse for his customer's act of fraud; but seriously, marking $15 worth of silver with the face value of $50 is kind of asinine. Especially when you make it look close enough to a Liberty Eagle that cashiers are accepting them at face value.

Mind you that IS just anecdotal evidence but... I'd be pissed if I lost $35 every time someone bought a bag of chips with one of these things in my store.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Is there a reason why these libertarians like poking the sickly jackals...
could have called it LibertySchilling, Liberty Ounce, Liberty Silver...

They really should have made those coins square or triangle or something, so that they would in no way whatsoever look like coins minted by the US government.

I think the Liberty Dollar's main problem is that it's called "dollar."

Make the coins octagons or something and call it a Liberty. "Yes sir that costs 2 Liberties."


edit: I see LibForestPaul beat me to it.

You two are the ones with your heads on right. As well as the Peter Shiff guy.

If you are going to call them "dollars" then at least make the face value something remotely close to the melt value! By making them resemble US Currency closely enough that cashiers in places really have been taking them at face value, and face value is some 3.5 times the melt value; then something stinks.

“Consumers were using their hard-earned money to buy goods and services, then getting fake change in return.”

Are you serious? This guy works for the FBI?

I don't honestly care about their effect on FRN's. If someone sold me $15 worth of silver for $50, I'd be outraged.

 

[Theocrat]

The Paper Trail

If gold and silver aren't real money, what is?

Paper with pictures of dead presidents on them and numbers at the corners.

It seems our federal government cares more about enforcing paper money than they do the paper which gives them limited power to do so.

 

[KCIndy]

Is there a reason why these libertarians like poking the sickly jackals...
could have called it LibertySchilling, Liberty Ounce, Liberty Silver...

Agreed.

I'm all in favor of using precious metals as currency. I would love to see the American taxpayer tell the Federal Reserve to take a hike - permanently. And I sincerely hope that these guys beat the charges and are released immediately!

But... damn.

I've said before that the Liberty Dollar guys were asking for trouble by being deliberately provocative with their design:

and compare that to the U.S. Mint issued "Peace Dollar" (1921-1935):

I can see where some people could become confused... and worst of all, by using the word "dollar" it's going to make it easier for prosecutors to push forward the idea that people *could* be passing them deceptively...

The suggestions here are right - they Liberty Dollar should have been minted as a square, triangle or whatever. Leave off the word "dollar" even if they *are* entitled to use it....

I hope the jury is intelligent enough to grasp the idea that no fraud was intended and do the right thing... kick 'em loose.

 

[sratiug]

Apparently, I am hearing anecdotal evidence here in NC now, people ARE in fact passing them off as US currency. Someone pays $25 for $15 worth of silver, and then spends them wherever clerks are likely to accept them at the $50 face value.

That actually IS fraud -- at least on the part of the people who are passing them. I'm not sure how the case can be made against NotHouse for his customer's act of fraud; but seriously, marking $15 worth of silver with the face value of $50 is kind of asinine. Especially when you make it look close enough to a Liberty Eagle that cashiers are accepting them at face value.

Mind you that IS just anecdotal evidence but... I'd be pissed if I lost $35 every time someone bought a bag of chips with one of these things in my store.

How would you feel if your cashier gave out 49 US minted silver dollars (1 dollar face value) in change for a 50 "dollar" fed note? Who would be committing fraud? Especially since only gold and silver is legal tender in your state.

 

[MyLibertyStuff]

“When groups try to replace the U.S. dollar with coins and bills that don't hold the same value, it affects the economy.

“Consumers were using their hard-earned money to buy goods and services, then getting fake change in return.”

I lol'd at the irony

 

[BeFranklin]

They sure do a good job of making it sound like barter is illegal, but both court cases (as I understand it) have nothing to do with barter and everything to do with privately minted coins that have the word 'dollar' on them. You can barter with coins that have the word 'dollar' or the word 'dime' on them, but the government mint has to have put it there.

Dollar is a word that goes back to the 1500s. It does not mean something minted by the government. In fact, our current "dollars" aren't even minted.