4 years ago I got in this fight [video]

"It makes zero sense to go LP if one is an elected official, they wouldn't get reelected."

It makes more sense if it's someone the voters have already elected and know and trust that some unknown they won't give the time of day for. The Republican Party was largely created by such persons, many of them already elected Whig politicians.
 
And no, your usual hit-and-run, arrogant 'yer an idiot' one-liner won't adequately address the question.
Uh, no, try again. This has already been explained in previous posts on the subject. Why don't you go back and read them?

You want to know why you didn't get hired into the big time, Collins? Because when the things The Establishment is doing stop working, they understand they have to abandon that tack and adopt a whole new tactic.

You aren't even capable of doing that.

You didn't even come to close to addressing any of that in previous posts. And this lame attempt at a smoke screen--which I estimate to be your Lame Smoke Blowing Attempt Opus 6,382,980--didn't even make anyone's eyes water.
 
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Trump was spouting off his big mouth about the presidency since before that. It doesn't mean he had a "team". Show us some proof that he had a "team" in place in 2015 or STFU...

Collins is often full of shit, but he is mostly right about this one. Trump's base of political operations ran out of NH since at least 2009; it was not exactly a team, mostly they outsourced polling on various issues that somehow told him whether or not conditions were right to take a run, meaning he needs to be able to easily win NH. Probably the biggest mistake by the Bush, Rubio campaigns was failing to take away NH early, before the debates even started. They ended up spending $60-$75M between them, but it was too late.

The obvious guy you want to look for is Roger Stone, but they didn't work together much during that time; the other guy to look at is Michael Cohen. He is the one who did a lot of the prep work for a possible 2012 run. Here a couple articles to start with:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/28/trump.democrats/
http://therealdeal.com/new-research/topics/people/michael-d-cohen/

Stone was involved in the prep for the 2016 run, here's an article about those early days:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html

The main difference between 2012 and 2016 is where Trump's money was going- instead of Democrats and "everyone", he's donating to GOP leadership.
 
I remember watching this video in the heat of the 2012 MN district conventions and feeling a sense of pride, being from Minnesota and fighting for the underdog.

That was then.. and what really stands out now is the overwhelming enthusiasm we had to make things happen during that time, to win delegates, to do whatever it took to win, including withstanding violence being used upon us, dirty politics, ramming through delegates that had no business being rammed through, having signs stripped out of our hands in the middle of conventions, or having entire delegations removed at the snap of a finger. It seems like that is now a distant memory. What happened to that passion?

I don't think it is Rand's fault like Collins insists. Rand was not the best candidate to ever live, not even close, but it's not the candidate that makes or breaks a movement or election, it's the people that support them that do.

How do both the Republican and Democratic party put pure crap out there as their party representative year after year, election cycle after election cycle? They aren't putting great candidates out there, haven't in decades, yet these people still win. The media is one piece of the pie in answering this, but there are a lot of pieces left to still figure out. These political parties have a base as strong as stone that never waivers, shows up, participates, and gets the job done. We stood strong in 2012, but faltered in 2016.

I guess there are a lot of questions I don't have answers to that I am still in search of and why I still come to this site every day. What is it going to take for our tiny liberty group of people to consolidate as strong as stone, the same as Democrats and Republicans seem to be able to? Do we need to get behind a new political party, ie: constitution party, libertarian party? Do we need mainstream politicians like Rand, to join the libertarian party like Ron Paul once did? Do we need to come up with something revolutionary that has never been done before, to gain the attention of millions of non-voters, to bolster our ranks? What is it going to take to create a group strong enough that does not flinch, even if we don't have a candidate as pure as someone like Ron Paul?

We can't wait around for 50 years for the next Paul, Rothbard, Goldwater, or whoever is next. We have to fill in the gaps between these great people with other good people, and if we have no base to prop these people up, then we are going to continue getting into these discussions about how good or bad politicians like Rand Paul are and miss the point completely that it's only up to us, the people, to make this thing happen, not any single individual.
 
The aftermath in MN is similar to what happened with the other state parties- they inherited a organization with less-than-ideal financial situation, the regular donors froze them out, then accused them of bankrupting the party. The supporters who put them in power didn't maintain the support they needed in the off years.
 
The aftermath in MN is similar to what happened with the other state parties- they inherited a organization with less-than-ideal financial situation, the regular donors froze them out, then accused them of bankrupting the party. The supporters who put them in power didn't maintain the support they needed in the off years.
Very true.... This is why I don't think we need to take over the entire party, but instead at least have a solid foothold. The power isn't with the party these days anyway, it is more with outside groups.

We should have focused on affecting legislative outcomes with our newly formed network.
 
I remember watching this video in the heat of the 2012 MN district conventions and feeling a sense of pride, being from Minnesota and fighting for the underdog.

That was then.. and what really stands out now is the overwhelming enthusiasm we had to make things happen during that time, to win delegates, to do whatever it took to win, including withstanding violence being used upon us, dirty politics, ramming through delegates that had no business being rammed through, having signs stripped out of our hands in the middle of conventions, or having entire delegations removed at the snap of a finger. It seems like that is now a distant memory. What happened to that passion?


1- simple burnout
2- some people demand instant gratification and lose interest otherwise. This is a multi-decade process.
3- lack of leadership from the top which also resulted in lack of leadership at the bottom



I guess there are a lot of questions I don't have answers to that I am still in search of and why I still come to this site every day. What is it going to take for our tiny liberty group of people to consolidate as strong as stone, the same as Democrats and Republicans seem to be able to? Do we need to get behind a new political party, ie: constitution party, libertarian party? Do we need mainstream politicians like Rand, to join the libertarian party like Ron Paul once did? Do we need to come up with something revolutionary that has never been done before, to gain the attention of millions of non-voters, to bolster our ranks? What is it going to take to create a group strong enough that does not flinch, even if we don't have a candidate as pure as someone like Ron Paul?

We can't wait around for 50 years for the next Paul, Rothbard, Goldwater, or whoever is next. We have to fill in the gaps between these great people with other good people, and if we have no base to prop these people up, then we are going to continue getting into these discussions about how good or bad politicians like Rand Paul are and miss the point completely that it's only up to us, the people, to make this thing happen, not any single individual.
This is why our people should get trained here and here and begin to work on the state and local level where we CAN make a difference with relative ease. Often times a few dozen people will determine the outcome of local races.
 
we lit fires in here. They're still burning, albeit there are fresh bodies out there still waking up, but the fact is, that little 'burp' we had in this country with regards to Ron, and the REVOLUTION, was not a wasted effort. Take heart, but don't ever quit. Slow down, yes, but keep at it whichever way works for you. Mileage may vary.
 
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