4 years ago I got in this fight [video]

[chudrockz]

Thankfully in Blue Earth county Minnesota Ron Paul was so strong that they couldn't (or wouldn't) try any shenanigans. I've been a liberty delegate every election since. I am again this time.

 

[Danke]

Thankfully in Blue Earth county Minnesota Ron Paul was so strong that they couldn't (or wouldn't) try any shenanigans. I've been a liberty delegate every election since. I am again this time.

I see you are in MN's Barren wastelands.

4 years ago I was traveling across the barren wasteland of Minnesota orchestrating the overthrow of dozens of local Republican parties on behalf of the Ron Paul Presidential Campaign.

 

[Matt Collins]

Wrong again Collins. Compare to Trumpster 2015. He had no one "handling" the media and yet they jumped on every crazy word he said (any media is good media).

Incorrect. Trump has a team of people handling the media. He also makes himself available at every opportunity. Trump plays the media like a fiddle, and they love it. For example, do you think the timing of the recent Chicago nonsense was coincidental?

The ONE thing that we could never overcome is the media bias and that's the one you will never be able to overcome. Run your campaigns. Do everything "right" and you still will get no media if you are pro liberty and that's that...

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Incorrect. Trump has a team of people handling the media. He also makes himself available at every opportunity. Trump plays the media like a fiddle, and they love it. For example, do you think the timing of the recent Chicago nonsense was coincidental?

Now I'm not sure if you are simply mistaken or lying. You saw that I stated "2015", right?? Of course he has a "team" now in 2016. I specifically mentioned Trumpster 2015 because when he first jumped in, he was a loner, a non-starter. Really nothing but a clown out of his element but THE MEDIA couldn't get enough of him. When he started polling, that's when he got a "team" because it actually looked like he had some traction...

 

[Matt Collins]

When he started polling, that's when he got a "team" because it actually looked like he had some traction...

Wrong again... Trump has been working on this since at least before 2010.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Then they didn't play their cards right. Media attention is earned, not given.

You're right that we probably won't win the Presidency, we simply are not big enough. Ron got very close to the Republican nomination in Iowa 2012 though.

No, he didn't. What you should have said is that he got very close to winning IOWA. Close to the nomination? Not a chance.

Focusing on state and local races are really the best bet. If we can get a Thomas or Justin or Rand elected then we should... targets of opportunity, but our primary objectives should absolutely be state and local.

The one thing that Ron's campaigns did was created a massive network and infrastructure and created a lot of excitement. That was supposed to be inherited by Rand but he botched it. That is a shame because if Rand had grown the base the way it was thought he would, then we would be nearly unstoppable on many state and local projects.

I don't know what the hell happened to Rand, but the way he ran his campaign is exactly how someone would have run it if they wanted to make damn sure they lost. I found it quite shocking actually.

 

[Matt Collins]

No, he didn't. What you should have said is that he got very close to winning IOWA. Close to the nomination? Not a chance.

Winning Iowa would have given Ron an opportunity to win the nomination.

I don't know what the hell happened to Rand, but the way he ran his campaign is exactly how someone would have run it if they wanted to make damn sure they lost. I found it quite shocking actually.

Yep... I think Rand may have overthought things a bit too much.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Winning Iowa would have given Ron an opportunity to win the nomination.

Yes, it would have given him a chance in hell of getting it; as opposed to a snowball's chance in hell..

Yep... I think Rand may have overthought things a bit too much.

Overthought? It looked like he didn't think at all.

 

[JK/SEA]

Yes, it would have given him a chance in hell of getting it; as opposed to a snowball's chance in hell..


Overthought? It looked like he didn't think at all.

i nominate LE to be Rands campaign mgr. for 2020...

do i have a 2nd?..

 

[LibertyEagle]

i nominate LE to be Rands campaign mgr. for 2020...

do i have a 2nd?..

Since you apparently thought it was great, you'd be the obvious choice for another great performance.

 

[JK/SEA]

Since you apparently thought it was great, you'd be the obvious choice for another great performance.

oh no..you mis-understand. I think you'd make a brilliant Mgr. seeing how you know so fucking much.

 

[Bryan]

Let's keep this civil. Thanks.

 

[acptulsa]

I've stated over and over and no one has disputed that without MEDIA coverage, no amount of "right" decisions will ever make a difference. The media runs the game and until we can find a way around that we are stuck.

Wrong... your inexperience tells you that.

My how you love pat answers. Especially wrong pat answers. You're like the forum's own Mini-Trump.

Here's my experience. In 2008 the Establishment played at trashing Ron Paul, and played at ignoring Ron Paul. They found that trashing him was likely to build support for him, at least a little in certain circles. Ignoring him put him out of sight and out of mind for the vast majority of Americans. In 2012 this dynamic became more pronounced, so they spent a lot of time ignoring him and only trashed him briefly right after debates.

In 2016 they decided this wasn't going to be enough, so they had to put their own lightning rod in to soak up the protest votes harmlessly lest those votes be used to nominate someone who wouldn't play their game. Enter Trump. No coverage at all for the true anti-Establishment candidate, so that no one knows his name, and endless whining about their hand-picked controlled opposition. And we see the result. No visible groundswell for the real thing, so the herd animals are afraid to fatten up his herd for fear that the herd will never get big enough. But plenty of stampede possible for the pig in the poke, the fake. So, half of them take the Rohrsach Test and decide he looks kind of like what they really need, and the other half bleat like sheep about how he won't make any difference but there is somehow value to be found in 'sending a message'. Of course, the only 'message' the Establishment got was that the herd will do just as they are told, provided a way is provided for them to do as they're told and whine about it at the same time.

And you whine about how Rand failed to capitalize. Trump didn't build on the foundation we laid because Rand didn't try. Trump built because the media gave him bricks to build with, and Rand didn't because the media gave him nothing at all. Was Rand wrong to try to bridge the gap between those full of anti-Establishment fervor and those who do want to steer the ship away from the iceberg, but don't want to rip the rudder off? No. Rand was playing to win the general election. Trump is playing to hand the general to Clinton on a silver platter. Those two games are not played the same way.

Now. How is your experience so different from that, that you can dismiss CA's intelligent comments so blithely? And no, your usual hit-and-run, arrogant 'yer an idiot' one-liner won't adequately address the question.

You are the classic infantry soldier, Collins. When faced with a serious discussion of the tactics and strategies that determined the final outcome of a battle, you arrogantly shout, 'You can't tell me anything! I was THERE!' But you couldn't see the big picture from the trenches. And you still arrogantly refuse to look at the big picture to this day, as if to admit that there is a big picture would somehow tarnish the glory you think you achieved in the trenches.

The sad thing is, if you were to ever come here and humbly recount your experience in the trenches, you'd probably get the adulation you keep fishing for. But instead you come here pretending to be something you clearly are not, and getting your well-padded little ass handed to you. Why do you do that? Are you really so insecure about your actual accomplishments?

 

[euphemia]

The doing the math part is kind of funny.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Wrong again... Trump has been working on this since at least before 2010.

Trump was spouting off his big mouth about the presidency since before that. It doesn't mean he had a "team". Show us some proof that he had a "team" in place in 2015 or STFU...

 

[Badger Paul]

"Four years ago I was traveling across the barren wasteland of Minnesota orchestrating the overthrow of dozens of local Republican parties on behalf of the Ron Paul Presidential Campaign."

And four years later Marco Rubio, of all people, won Minnesota's GOP caucuses. Whatever you did and others did before to prepare the way in Minnesota pretty much went up smoke nine years later. But you can be content with the past, you have that to fall back on.

Is that Rand's fault? Not entirely although he deserves a good share of the blame. The greatest drawback of amateur/grassroots politics is that we all have lives outside of politics that have to be tended to. Unless we're paid, we can't be doing this 24/7 nor are we made of money to constantly keep giving. What's needed is a trained, professional cadre of activists (sadly but realistically speaking) working inside a party apparatus who can do that year-round work more than every two to four years. The trick is having those people inside but cognizant of the larger cause they working for so they're working to make the party a reflection of it while continuing to do party things like raising money and winning elections. I know that's not easy to do but that's ideally what has to be done. Unfortunately in the case of state parties like Iowa and Minnesota, control was fleeting because of establishment sabotage, lack of commitment and lack of party building which made it easy for party people to kick the Paulites out when they got the chance.

Of course it didn't help Rand's establishment wooings and other controversial moves turning off said supporters not to mention the fact he's cursed by be from the same state as the leader of the Republicans in the Senate. As I said before, had Rand worked to take control of his state party and leave McConnell in the ashbin of history, he could have sparked the kind of anti-establishment groundswell that Trump has so benefited from. Nope, instead he thought McConnell was meal ticket to the nomination. Instead it turned out to be his anchor.

Liberty Eagle said Rand ran the kind of campaign looking like he was determined to lose. I concur fully. It was a disaster and one can only hope something or someone can be salvaged from it. I don't look towards Rand for leadership and neither should anyone else after this, especially if he's just going to rubber stamp endorse Trump. Yes, he'll probably get re-elected in the fall but being McConnell's butt-boy for another six years is not something money bombs are made of (and I'm not going to even comment on wild talk about Rand and a brokered convention). The way forward is just too cloudy at this point to say what it is. Trump's ascension and his platform I think makes the LP a viable platform for politics in my opinion if certain current elected Republican officials are willing to pursue that route. But if no one is going to stick their necks out, it won't happen. Just think of the jolt to the nation's politics if Rand, Massie and Amash and others bolted for the LP and gave it instant credibility as a party. Unfortunately that would require leadership and courage and that's in short supply right now.

 

[Matt Collins]

Trump was spouting off his big mouth about the presidency since before that. It doesn't mean he had a "team". Show us some proof that he had a "team" in place in 2015 or STFU...

I hired one of the same vendors that was working for him in 2010/2011 preparing for his run. I am under a NDA so I won't share the specifics, but I can assure you that Trump's plan was in place loooooong before 2014.

 

[Matt Collins]

And four years later Marco Rubio, of all people, won Minnesota's GOP caucuses. Whatever you did and others did before to prepare the way in Minnesota pretty much went up smoke nine years later.

Yes, leadership in MN kind of fell apart after the campaign unfortunately. Rand's inattention to such matters didn't help.

Is that Rand's fault? Not entirely although he deserves a good share of the blame. The greatest drawback of amateur/grassroots politics is that we all have lives outside of politics that have to be tended to. Unless we're paid, we can't be doing this 24/7 nor are we made of money to constantly keep giving. What's needed is a trained, professional cadre of activists (sadly but realistically speaking) working inside a party apparatus who can do that year-round work more than every two to four years. The trick is having those people inside but cognizant of the larger cause they working for so they're working to make the party a reflection of it while continuing to do party things like raising money and winning elections. I know that's not easy to do but that's ideally what has to be done. Unfortunately in the case of state parties like Iowa and Minnesota, control was fleeting because of establishment sabotage, lack of commitment and lack of party building which made it easy for party people to kick the Paulites out when they got the chance.

I agree.

Of course it didn't help Rand's establishment wooings and other controversial moves turning off said supporters not to mention the fact he's cursed by be from the same state as the leader of the Republicans in the Senate. As I said before, had Rand worked to take control of his state party and leave McConnell in the ashbin of history, he could have sparked the kind of anti-establishment groundswell that Trump has so benefited from. Nope, instead he thought McConnell was meal ticket to the nomination. Instead it turned out to be his anchor.

I think the calculation was not to blow political capital (and money) on booting McConnell... and besides, it's much better to have the Majority Leader in your back pocket than to have him out on the street.

I don't particularly like it either, but I can understand why that decision was made.

Liberty Eagle said Rand ran the kind of campaign looking like he was determined to lose. I concur fully. It was a disaster and one can only hope something or someone can be salvaged from it. I don't look towards Rand for leadership and neither should anyone else after this, especially if he's just going to rubber stamp endorse Trump. Yes, he'll probably get re-elected in the fall but being McConnell's butt-boy for another six years is not something money bombs are made of (and I'm not going to even comment on wild talk about Rand and a brokered convention). The way forward is just too cloudy at this point to say what it is. Trump's ascension and his platform I think makes the LP a viable platform for politics in my opinion if certain current elected Republican officials are willing to pursue that route. But if no one is going to stick their necks out, it won't happen. Just think of the jolt to the nation's politics if Rand, Massie and Amash and others bolted for the LP and gave it instant credibility as a party. Unfortunately that would require leadership and courage and that's in short supply right now.

It makes zero sense to go LP if one is an elected official, they wouldn't get reelected.

But I agree, Rand should not run for President ever again, and instead should go back to fighting as hard as he possibly can in the Senate, being the best Senator we've ever had for the cause of liberty.

 

[Matt Collins]

In 2016 they decided this wasn't going to be enough, so they had to put their own lightning rod in to soak up the protest votes harmlessly lest those votes be used to nominate someone who wouldn't play their game. Enter Trump. No coverage at all for the true anti-Establishment candidate, so that no one knows his name, and endless whining about their hand-picked controlled opposition. And we see the result. No visible groundswell for the real thing, so the herd animals are afraid to fatten up his herd for fear that the herd will never get big enough. But plenty of stampede possible for the pig in the poke, the fake. So, half of them take the Rohrsach Test and decide he looks kind of like what they really need, and the other half bleat like sheep about how he won't make any difference but there is somehow value to be found in 'sending a message'. Of course, the only 'message' the Establishment got was that the herd will do just as they are told, provided a way is provided for them to do as they're told and whine about it at the same time.

Kind of.... I don't think Rand could have won this time around with Trump in the race, but Rand should not have performed as poorly as he did.

You are the classic infantry soldier, Collins. When faced with a serious discussion of the tactics and strategies that determined the final outcome of a battle, you arrogantly shout, 'You can't tell me anything! I was THERE!' But you couldn't see the big picture from the trenches. And you still arrogantly refuse to look at the big picture to this day, as if to admit that there is a big picture would somehow tarnish the glory you think you achieved in the trenches.

The sad thing is, if you were to ever come here and humbly recount your experience in the trenches, you'd probably get the adulation you keep fishing for. But instead you come here pretending to be something you clearly are not, and getting your well-padded little ass handed to you. Why do you do that? Are you really so insecure about your actual accomplishments?

Uh, no, try again. This has already been explained in previous posts on the subject. Why don't you go back and read them?

 

[jmdrake]

Not a chance, Matt, and they got very little during their campaigns compared to the others. Fact is, that this campaign season has more than proved to me that there is no way we are going to ever win the Presidency. It would require overwhelming support or the bastards would cheat us out of it. We need to face it, and focus on elections we have a chance of winning. Unless you tell me Peter Thiel has agreed to buy a television network for us.

Ummmmm....how many time magazine covers did John Kasich get?