12 year old girl arrested for doodling on her desk, sues NYC

[angelatc]

Okay. Well, Jenn. I respect your position, I just think that IF ANYONE SHOULD SPANK A CHILD it should be the parent. It's only right IF it has to be done. Why let a complete strange beat on your kids? That thought just kinda pisses me off

Oh, as a parent, my eyes just roll when I hear that, "How dare you discipline my child?" thing.

I told my kids that their teachers absolutely had my permission to spank them. The schools didn't actually allow spanking any more, but my kids didn't need to know that.

I like the way JtL interchanges the word spanking with the word beating, too. How awfully clever.

I have very little interest in child-focused parenting. It's a product of the 80's. I'm more old school, where the children have very little rights accompanied by quite a few responsibilities. I don't care too much how they feel about being punished, and I'm certainly not interested in why they're "acting out." My main objective is to remind them that bad behavior will not be tolerated, at home, at the store, at Grandma's, or at school.

If they have a teacher that doesn't like them, they need to deal with it. If my neighbor complains about something they did, they go apologize. I don't outwardly care what really happened. As long as they're kids, it's their responsibility to fix it.

 

[angelatc]

IMO, unless the parents have explicitly signed away on a set of summary punishments (which would for the sake of the point I'm making include the type of punishment you describe)
the school can inflict on their child based on their say so alone (which is after all that you have when no evidence is presented to you that the act occurred and that the act was by the
hand of your child before punishment is administered), I would have to disagree with you.

Presumed Guilty / Summary Punishment mindset is bad for adults and its also bad for children.

LOL! Heavens forbid we actually use techniques that work. And my all means, let's make huge mountains out of tiny little molehills. Lets blow everything entirely out of proportion to ensure that the child's punishment is shared among everybody forced to endure mandatory participation. When a child misbehaves, it takes an entire village to consult on the punishment.

By the time you and yours get around to punishing her, she'll be in college.

She drew on a desk. The teacher punishes her with a little elbow grease combined with a subtle dose of public humiliation. The horror!!! It's child abuse! How dare they punish my child!

My kid gets in trouble at school for talking . All the time. He swears he's never at fault. Funny how that works.

It is sooo funny to get parenting advice from kids who don't have kids yet. I'd be shuddering if I didn't know that actually having a kid can and will change your perceptions.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Oh, as a parent, my eyes just roll when I hear that, "How dare you discipline my child?" thing.

I told my kids that their teachers absolutely had my permission to spank them. The schools didn't actually allow spanking any more, but my kids didn't need to know that.

I like the way JtL interchanges the word spanking with the word beating, too. How awfully clever.

I have very little interest in child-focused parenting. It's a product of the 80's. I'm more old school, where the children have very little rights accompanied by quite a few responsibilities. I don't care too much how they feel about being punished, and I'm certainly not interested in why they're "acting out." My main objective is to remind them that bad behavior will not be tolerated, at home, at the store, at Grandma's, or at school.

If they have a teacher that doesn't like them, they need to deal with it. If my neighbor complains about something they did, they go apologize. I don't outwardly care what really happened. As long as they're kids, it's their responsibility to fix it.

I just have one thing to say. Your ebay link doesn't work.

 

[angelatc]

I just have one thing to say. Your ebay link doesn't work.

Thanks! It might because I don't have anything listed, but I'll certainly check it.

 

[TheEvilDetector]

LOL! Heavens forbid we actually use techniques that work.

Just because something works doesn't mean it should be used strictly speaking. So this is a poor argument in its own right.

And my all means, let's make huge mountains out of tiny little molehills. Lets blow everything entirely out of proportion to ensure that the child's punishment is shared among everybody forced to endure mandatory participation. When a child misbehaves, it takes an entire village to consult on the punishment.

By the time you and yours get around to punishing her, she'll be in college.

I think you're exaggerating here, which is ironic given the context of your paragraph.

She drew on a desk. The teacher punishes her with a little elbow grease combined with a subtle dose of public humiliation. The horror!!! It's child abuse! How dare they punish my child!

It's fine if you have authorised it. However personally, I would not consent to public humiliation as a form of punishment.

This type of punishment can continue on punishing long after the original act occurred, thus it would likely exceed bounds of what might be considered reasonable punishment.

My kid gets in trouble at school for talking . All the time. He swears he's never at fault. Funny how that works.

What point are you making here?

It is sooo funny to get parenting advice from kids who don't have kids yet. I'd be shuddering if I didn't know that actually having a kid can and will change your perceptions.

Circular reasoning = fail.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Thanks! It might because I don't have anything listed, but I'll certainly check it.

You have a nice feedback count. How long did it take you to amass that much?

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

I had a bunch of every single thing you've talked about, and I'm sorry but I still hate my parents. Their ideas were twisted, but if you ask them about it they will tell you that they were instilling values. They demanded and demanded and demanded, and that might have been a major contributing factor to why I fled at the first opportunity to finish raising myself.

They didn't drop me off anywhere or shuffle me around. "Spankings" devolved into just plain hitting, and for completely wrong reasons. Things that should have led to discussions instead became stressful and physically dangerous situations. My parents will still insist, however, that they were just "spankings."

Their idea of hard work involved doing all sorts of odd jobs at the ballet studio my sister insisted on attending. They couldn't afford the tuition, so while I was still little we were there scrubbing and cleaning out changing rooms, bathrooms, and studios. If I did a good job, I got a Slurpee.

The good talking to portion of things never really went my way. To this day, my entire family speaks at a volume that is actually painful to me. I speak firmly but do not raise my voice. They were never able to do that, and they were never able to present their point to me logically. If they felt they were losing, they had to yell. They would insist this is still a "good talking to."

This is my point about perception. I am not saying that you have a warped definition of all of those terms, but I am saying that people have varied definitions of them overall. I wasn't in a cliche abusive home, but I know my parents were in the wrong on a lot of things, and yes... that makes them dumbasses. They played favorites, they hit or yelled when they could have just talked, they made me feel unwelcome in my own skin.

It's a major league derail by this point, but please realize that the same approach is not going to work for everyone. Your parents could have raised me the same way they raised you, doing everything the same way, and I would turn out your total opposite.

Yeah thats pretty fucked up Melissa. I was never forced to work for my sister to get dancing lessons. However I was forced to work for myself if I wanted something for myself that was out of their budget. I dont resent it. Punishment was only given if I deserved it. And believe me I deserved it many times. At the same time, I knew my parents loved me very much. Its a fine line.

 

[TheEvilDetector]

Thats bullshit.

What specifically?

The child helped create the problem. It would show the child that what they are doing is not easy to clean up. I would support the school 100% if my child were busted drawing on desks, and because my child new that I would support the school 100% on this, they would know that it was unacceptable. Its not about cleaning because the school doesn't want to pay someone. Its about teaching the child that there are consequences for their actions, and to respect property.

I can't say I disagree with anything in particular other than to say, its probably worthwhile checking to see if the accusations against your child have some foundation.

You can't assume that teachers/other students are impartial and objective at all times.

As I mentioned before I support the right of parents to delegate disciplinary responsibilities and punishments to others.

I think that parents should communicate clearly what they consider acceptable for their child as far as disciplinary punishments go in an explicit fashion.

To do otherwise would be abdicating parental responsibilities for the welfare of their child.

Remember it is the parent not the state who should dictate how the child is brought up, the only exception to this being the protection of the child from severe neglect or abuse where friends/family are unable or unwilling to assist.