Zerohedge hosts debate on January 6th, featuring Alex Jones and Glenn Greenwald.

[unknown]

Holy shit, this was great.

The moderator kept saying that people are going to tune out if they continue to talk over each other, LOL.

Alex was on FIRE. Pure epicness throughout.

But Glenn was a true subject matter expert.

His replies, especially in the beginning, should be isolated and reposted. I'll come back and edit this post with time stamps featuring Glenn, primarily in the first 30 minutes.



https://twitter.com/RealAlexJones/status/1743772360388301211

 

[TheTexan]

There really is no point in trying to engage in debate with the left. Besides of course clickbait entertainment and theatrics.

Just acknowledge each other's differences -- and separate.

 

[Working Poor]

I tried to watch it but Jones was not being a good debater and the guy moderating did nothing to pull on his leash.

 

[ClaytonB]

There really is no point in trying to engage in debate with the left. Besides of course clickbait entertainment and theatrics.

Just acknowledge each other's differences -- and separate.

No, this is also part of the battlefield. I think that Alex's style versus Glenn's style illustrates the two different approaches of conservative opposition to left-wing insanity, and both approaches play a role. Alex Jones is easily flustered by technical arguments because, to him, it's "obvious" that J6 was not an insurrection. Well, yes, it is obvious, but it's not obvious to moderates/liberals who are trapped in the Far Left echo-chamber. We can get angry and pound our fists on the desk that they should do their homework and learn to think properly but the uninvolved masses are never going to do that, and the Far Left is banking on that. So, we need the Greenwald strategy, as well, to take the ideological fight into the enemy's own turf, and expose the impotency of their arguments on their own terms. This happens to be my particular strategy, as well. If we only follow the Alex Jones strategy (which is valid in its own domain), then we end up in a situation like you describe: there is no communication across the "boundary" between left and right and all we can do is separate. Ideological infiltration is essential to tip the scale and never doubt for a moment that the Far Left has dispatched many infiltrators into our camp. We don't have to use trickery, like they do, because we really are fighting fair. But it's not enough to fight fair, we have to push them across the entire breadth of the battlefield, or they will just flank us and collapse our ranks...

 

[acptulsa]

Just acknowledge each other's differences -- and separate.

Exactly.

You don't change abusers by giving them what they want, just so they'll hang around and pretend to listen to you. You reject and deprive them.

Time for Flyover Country to fly the coop. If you Texans don't have the cojones to secede, maybe we Oklahomans can get the Indian Nations to.

 

[Dr.3D]

If you want to know why people are mostly misinformed about this subject, just go to Startpage.com and search "The insurrection"

 

[TheTexan]

No, this is also part of the battlefield. I think that Alex's style versus Glenn's style illustrates the two different approaches of conservative opposition to left-wing insanity, and both approaches play a role. Alex Jones is easily flustered by technical arguments because, to him, it's "obvious" that J6 was not an insurrection. Well, yes, it is obvious, but it's not obvious to moderates/liberals who are trapped in the Far Left echo-chamber. We can get angry and pound our fists on the desk that they should do their homework and learn to think properly but the uninvolved masses are never going to do that, and the Far Left is banking on that. So, we need the Greenwald strategy, as well, to take the ideological fight into the enemy's own turf, and expose the impotency of their arguments on their own terms. This happens to be my particular strategy, as well. If we only follow the Alex Jones strategy (which is valid in its own domain), then we end up in a situation like you describe: there is no communication across the "boundary" between left and right and all we can do is separate. Ideological infiltration is essential to tip the scale and never doubt for a moment that the Far Left has dispatched many infiltrators into our camp. We don't have to use trickery, like they do, because we really are fighting fair. But it's not enough to fight fair, we have to push them across the entire breadth of the battlefield, or they will just flank us and collapse our ranks...

I hate to break it to you but no impotency of arguments is being exposed here.

And it has nothing to do with the rationality or the strength of the arguments, or the lack thereof.

You can argue that 1+1=2 to a brick wall all day long and guess what that brick wall still don't care.

 

[Todd]

I tried to watch it but Jones was not being a good debater and the guy moderating did nothing to pull on his leash.

I stopped listening because of this. Alex can’t shut his own mouth and listen.

 

[ClaytonB]

I hate to break it to you but no impotency of arguments is being exposed here.

And it has nothing to do with the rationality or the strength of the arguments, or the lack thereof.

You can argue that 1+1=2 to a brick wall all day long and guess what that brick wall still don't care.

Well, you're objectively wrong. There are many ex-liberals who have become conservative/libertarian after realizing the ideological contradictions inherent in leftism. Those like myself and Greenwald who wade out into enemy territory are trying to plant the seed of doubt into the minds of the very people who oppose us. But they're not going to listen long enough for that seed to even be planted if you're pounding your fist on the desk and shouting them down. They're just going to tune out. The yield is never 100%, of course, but it is not 0% either. In this way, we reach people who are absolutely unreachable by sticking exclusively to talking-points. And some of the strongest apologists for conservative/libertarian thought are ex-liberals. Their testimony is much stronger precisely because they werent' "raised in it" and, thus, the "far right brainwashing" excuse doesn't work.

 

[TheTexan]

Well, you're objectively wrong. There are many ex-liberals who have become conservative/libertarian after realizing the ideological contradictions inherent in leftism. Those like myself and Greenwald who wade out into enemy territory are trying to plant the seed of doubt into the minds of the very people who oppose us. But they're not going to listen long enough for that seed to even be planted if you're pounding your fist on the desk and shouting them down. They're just going to tune out. The yield is never 100%, of course, but it is not 0% either. In this way, we reach people who are absolutely unreachable by sticking exclusively to talking-points. And some of the strongest apologists for conservative/libertarian thought are ex-liberals. Their testimony is much stronger precisely because they werent' "raised in it" and, thus, the "far right brainwashing" excuse doesn't work.

Not enough to matter.

Anyone who could be educated, already is.

 

[ClaytonB]

Not enough to matter.

Anyone who could be educated, already is.

I'm sure the patent office has a job for you if you want it...

 

[unknown]

I stopped listening because of this. Alex can’t shut his own mouth and listen.

I can see why some people thought it was annoying but this is what kept me glued, to see what he was going to say next, "I gotta go take a piss, you can tell fairytales while I'm gone", hahahahahaha

 

[TheTexan]

I'm sure the patent office has a job for you if you want it...

You're all about objectivity right?

Objectively, would Ron Paul get more votes today than he did in 2008?

I don't think he would.

 

[Occam's Banana]

LIVE! The "January 6" Debate | Hosted by Zerohedge
https://rumble.com/v45dk23-live-the-january-6-debate-hosted-by-zerohedge.html
{Glenn Greenwald | 06 January 2024}}

CLIP:

The Jan. 6 Debate | Glenn’s Most Heated Exchanges
https://rumble.com/v45wyfr-the-jan.-6-debate-glenns-most-heated-exchanges.html
{Glenn Greenwald | 08 January 2024}}

​

 

[vita3]

What a monumental disappointment Alex Jones turned out to be

The end

 

[ClaytonB]

You're all about objectivity right?

Objectively, would Ron Paul get more votes today than he did in 2008?

I don't think he would.

The world is a very different place than it was in 2008. So different, that I despair of making such comparisons at all. What are the voting patterns of NPCs? Who knows, they're NPCs. And that's one of the reasons that Trump, for all his Orangeness, makes sense in a weird way. Clown World is bonkers, perhaps Trump is just the right kind of bonkers in reverse. Ron Paul as POTUS would have been a scalpel cutting out a tumor. What we need today is a wrecking ball who, hopefully, doesn't go full-Hitler...

 

[TheTexan]

The world is a very different place than it was in 2008. So different, that I despair of making such comparisons at all. What are the voting patterns of NPCs? Who knows, they're NPCs. And that's one of the reasons that Trump, for all his Orangeness, makes sense in a weird way. Clown World is bonkers, perhaps Trump is just the right kind of bonkers in reverse. Ron Paul as POTUS would have been a scalpel cutting out a tumor. What we need today is a wrecking ball who, hopefully, doesn't go full-Hitler...

It would be pretty tough to try to argue that people in general are more educated than they were in 2008. Which was the point.

Education is good and great and should continue but it simply is not effective enough - not even close - to get us any closer to any goals.

We need to realize that some people (lots) can't or won't be educated, and separate ourselves from them.

 

[ClaytonB]

It would be pretty tough to try to argue that people in general are more educated than they were in 2008. Which was the point.

Education is good and great and should continue but it simply is not effective enough - not even close - to get us any closer to any goals.

We need to realize that some people (lots) can't or won't be educated, and separate ourselves from them.

The vanguard of Western civilization has been running away from the pagans for centuries. Today, we've hit the westernmost shore of the New World and there is nowhere left to run away to, short of boarding one of Musk's rockets on the way to Mars. Our backs are to the wall and the pagan hordes are still coming for us. What are we going to do? The only option left is to convert them. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. The heart (and the Gospel) has everything to do with it...

 

[TheTexan]

The vanguard of Western civilization has been running away from the pagans for centuries. Today, we've hit the westernmost shore of the New World and there is nowhere left to run away to, short of boarding one of Musk's rockets on the way to Mars. Our backs are to the wall and the pagan hordes are still coming for us. What are we going to do? The only option left is to convert them. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. The heart (and the Gospel) has everything to do with it...

Abraham Lincoln would certainly want you to believe all of that to be true.

Separation is and has always been the answer. If any "educating" or "converting" needs to be done, it is to re-normalize the idea of separation. Educate them that secession is healthy and normal. And if they can't learn that lesson with polite language, then they must be taught it by other means.

The right to separate is at the core of human freedom. Without it, there is no freedom, only constant struggle for power over each other, which is what we are seeing today.

 

[ClaytonB]

Abraham Lincoln would certainly want you to believe all of that to be true.

Separation is and has always been the answer. If any "educating" or "converting" needs to be done, it is to re-normalize the idea of separation. Educate them that secession is healthy and normal. And if they can't learn that lesson with polite language, then they must be taught it by other means.

The right to separate is at the core of human freedom. Without it, there is no freedom, only constant struggle for power over each other, which is what we are seeing today.

I agree that we have a right to separate, however, I don't think that is actually the zeitgeist of our time. I think that these people are naturally subservient and they will always seek a Strong Leader and I think that this is one of the reasons that Trump terrifies the left so badly... they know that Trump just might start converting a non-negligible percentage of their "true believer" base. The answer might be that we adopt them and put them to work out on the back 40. Yes, seems implausible right now, but there's an economic cleansing coming and I can assure you that the true-believer leftist masses are the least prepared for it. They will feel betrayed beyond words when it hits. Maybe spending a season mucking the barn is exactly what some of these screeching libtards need in order to finally grow up...