You may want to rethink eating pork

[jessahick]

She NEVER said Christ abolished the law, indeed otherwise. He fulfilled it is what she said.

Dr is the same Dr Murray I've been asking you to listen to for years. He was Donnie ' s teacher since 1980's.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Huh?

Way to blow me off!

I do not understand how any of that was blowing you off.

You've torn down one of the same faith saying the same thing as yourself cuz your offended by her use of the term "sin of the flesh"? To the point where of oozing pompousness...you do come across very condescending, whether you mean to or not.

No, I'm simply saying that "What God has cleansed, I will not call unholy." That is directly from the text of the Bible. I'm sorry if it sounds pompous or condescending, but I don't know how to put it any other way.

I've been asking you to view Dr Murray for a few years now, haven't i?

I've also been watching Arnold Murray from before I met you. Not on a daily basis like you do, but Murray was one of the first teachers I encountered after I was saved in 1998. He is also one of the few that I do not consider to be wrong on many points.

If your knowledge is so great that you have no need of checking out someone else's teachings... if you want folk to take your passions and words here to heart- and I KNOW you've got a lot to offer this world.... then you should treat other the way your want to be treated ya know?

Actually, this is a great example of what I'm talking about. I already watch/listen to/believe Arnold Murray, and have since 1998. I'm not dismissing Arnold Murray in any way, shape, or form.

if you could be bothered to take the 30 min it would take to listen, you'll understand better where I am coming from.

And then I'll be happy to discuss this further if you still disagree after viewing it.

Kosher? Who keeps bringing up that kenite terminology?

This whole argument seems to arise from a perception that I don't think pork is bad for you. That perception is in error.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

She NEVER said Christ abolished the law, indeed otherwise. He fulfilled it is what she said.

Dr is the same Dr Murray I've been asking you to listen to for years. He was Donnie ' s teacher since 1980's.

I never said that she said Christ abolished the Law.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I never said that she said Christ abolished the Law.

I was annoyed because she was treating me like I was an ignorant child who thought that Messiah abolished the Law, when I have never believed such a thing, EVER. If someone can hang around me for 5-7 years and not be bothered to understand what it is that I believe in the first place, then they should not be treating me like an ignorant child who needs their wisdom. That's not 'me thinking I am better wiser or smarter,' but just common courtesy. I would never dare to accuse someone of being ignorant of something when I had no idea whether or not they were in fact ignorant of that something.

 

[jessahick]

That's the thing. We are all on the same page!!! And instead of lifting up and supporting, you're putting words in people's mouths... no one called them unholy, and you are nitpicking. Clarification was offered through an outside source (who really is better at explaining Levitican law) and was continually blown off. The link she gave was his consise explanation of why she calls eating pork a sin against our human flesh.

Blown way out of proportion. Whew!

And you've totally got the edge with a real computer and keyboard. There is no way I can dissect your quotes... but there really is no need, you've done it for both of us.

Just saying...what's really important here? Pork ain't healthy for human consumption. Eating pork won't alter your personal salvation status by any means but it sure ain't good for ya.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

That's the thing. We are all on the same page!!! And instead of lifting up and supporting, you're putting words in people's mouths...

What you appear to be missing, is that this started by her tearing me down in the first place, and so I reacted in an annoyed fashion for having been torn down. You are calling me out for getting annoyed that she tore me down, and totally overlooking the fact that this whole mess started with her tearing me down.

no one called them unholy, and you are nitpicking. Clarification was offered through an outside source (who really is better at explaining Levitican law) and was continually blown off. The link she gave was his consise explanation of why she calls eating pork a sin against our human flesh.

Unholy = sinful. I will NOT call something sinful, that God has de-sin-ified. That would be calling God a liar. Calling God a liar is neither nitpicking nor being blown out of proportion, it's a BIG DEAL.

Blown way out of proportion. Whew!

And you've totally got the edge with a real computer and keyboard. There is no way I can dissect your quotes... but there really is no need, you've done it for both of us.

Just saying...what's really important here? Pork ain't healthy for human consumption. Eating pork won't alter your personal salvation status by any means but it sure ain't good for ya.

Pork is exceedingly unhealthy. I agree 1000%. Someone calls pork a 'sin' and I will vehemently and passionately disagree, because to call pork 'sinful' is to call God a liar, and that bothers me in the worst way. You may think it's semantics, I do not. Let's call it 'unhealthy' or 'bad for you,' and I am 1000% with you, but as soon as you break out the "s" word, I'm going to reject it because it directly contradicts God, as reported in God's Word.

 

[jessahick]

I was annoyed because she was treating me like I was an ignorant child who thought that Messiah abolished the Law, when I have never believed such a thing, EVER. If someone can hang around me for 5-7 years and not be bothered to understand what it is that I believe in the first place, then they should not be treating me like an ignorant child who needs their wisdom. That's not 'me thinking I am better wiser or smarter,' but just common courtesy. I would never dare to accuse someone of being ignorant of something when I had no idea whether or not they were in fact ignorant of that something.

sweetie that's your opinion. Why did you choose to make it so personal? the murrays are really good at explaining this sort of stuff ya know. I never read her responses to you that way... that's how you read them. She didn't accuse you of anything. I love you both and we should all be lifting each up in this war against evil. And pork.

 

[jessahick]

Meat laws were explicitly overturned, so there is no more any kind of 'sinful' food for a Christian, however for health reasons I try to basically eat a kosher diet without giving a damn as to whether it's been 'blessed' or not. Every once in a blue moon I'll eat something pork, partly because I love bacon (and a restaurant isn't going to have beef bacon), and partly to acknowledge that there is no such thing as sinful food anymore.

This was your initial response to donnay's message on Levitican law.

Jesus wiped all sin away; there is no more sin. Agreed. Yours wasn't an explanation of why & how the use of the use of the word sin would be nonapplicable.

I read every post of this thread at least twice before figuring out how to actually post. And yes, from what I've read she is appealing to you to listen to what Murray has to say about this subject and you blowing her off. No one is treating anyone in any way poorly except neither rod you is actually hearing what the other is saying and it's the same dadgum thing. Defiling the temple.

 

[TheTexan]

Toenails, hair

...so?

fecal matter

It's probably OK to eat as long as it's cooked... and as long as its in a small enough quantity to not affect the taste... shrug.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

It was, in fact, sinful. For a variety of reasons, cleanliness was only a part of it. There was also the point of 'separation from amongst the nations.' That separation is one of the reasons the ordinance was repealed when it came time for the Great Commission. Separation time was over.

Well, we may have different interpretations of the Old Testament. I don't actually think any of the sins in the OT became "not sins." I don't think Jesus actually changed anything in the OT. Moreover, I think biblical sin in the OT was punishable either by death or by blood sacrifice. I realize I have a fairly minority view on biblical sin, so I will concede the point even though I disagree.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

This was your initial response to donnay's message on Levitican law.

Jesus wiped all sin away; there is no more sin. Agreed. Yours wasn't an explanation of why & how the use of the use of the word sin would be nonapplicable.

I read every post of this thread at least twice before figuring out how to actually post. And yes, from what I've read she is appealing to you to listen to what Murray has to say about this subject and you blowing her off. No one is treating anyone in any way poorly except neither rod you is actually hearing what the other is saying and it's the same dadgum thing. Defiling the temple.

All I said was that calling it 'sinful' is wrong, because God explicitly made it not-sinful, and I backed up my statement with a quote from the Bible. For that, I was accused of believing that Christ abolished the law, when I have never believed such a thing in my life. I wasn't blowing off Arnold Murray, nor was I blowing off her position that pork is bad for you, I was blowing off a false accusation. That's what we are supposed to do with false accusations - blow them off. I provided enough evidence to demonstrate that the accusation (of my alleged belief that Messiah abolished the Law) was false, and then I dropped the matter entirely.

I have said what I have to say on the matter, and now I will drop this discussion also, as it is not profitable. Neither of you can see that I was not the one who offended her, but she was the one who offended me. That's fine. I believe that it's clear enough to most people that I don't need to keep rehashing what is already apparent.

 

[jessahick]

where exactly did donnay accuse you of anything? I have scoured this thread trying to find it and ain't found a thing.

However- I accused you of being both arrogant and condescending In your later replies to her. I'd really like to hear YOUR THOUGHTS on what Dr Dennis Murray has to say about this topic. That's really all I wanted here.

Perhaps I shouldn't have started off with an attack.... but both of us call it like we see it right? No bs here. Don't get defensive; own it & move on please.

Have a good night!

Since you obviously don't want to listen to dennis, then fine.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Deleted all of this part above as irrelevant and overly re-hashed.

I'd really like to hear YOUR THOUGHTS on what Dr Dennis Murray has to say about this topic. That's really all I wanted here.

I am watching it now. His analysis of Leviticus is perfect. He, like donnay, is simply overlooking Acts 10. Call it unhealthy all day long. There is, after all, a reason that I observe the dietary laws. But we cannot call it sinful anymore, and that is the one place where Dr. Murray has it wrong.

Acts 10:15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” [NASB]

You know that I avoid pork like the plague. Once, maybe twice a year I eat it on purpose, (even though I hate it) specifically so that I do not fall into this exact same trap. I will call it 'desperately unhealthy' but I will never call it 'sinful,' because God explicitly said not to.

Dennis is perfectly correct in his analysis of Leviticus. He is also perfectly correct as to the fact that pork and other formerly unholy meats are not healthy at all. He is, however, wrong to use words like "sin" or "unholy" to describe them, because God explicitly told Peter not to do that.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I couldn't deal with it anymore. This whole conversation has made me hungry for bacon, so I'm broiling up the last of my beef bacon.