You get 50-year mortgages after voting for deporting foreigners, shoring up domestic manufacturing, ending foreign wars and controlling spending

Why?

Not being snarky, seriously, why?
Because, at the beginning of paying off the loan, the amount owed is high, so the amount of interest that accrues in a given period is high.

At the end of paying off the loan, the amount owed is low, so the amount of interest that accrues in a given period of time is low.

If you have a loan for $100k with 10% interest per year, and you make your first payment one year after taking out that loan, the amount of interest included in that payment will be $10,000. I.e. if you pay $15k, then $10k of that will be interest, and $5k will be principle.

With each successive year, the amount owed will go down, and the amount of interest that will have accrued in a year will be less, so that paying the same amount in the same period will have more left over to pay down principle after paying that amount of interest that is getting lower each year. By the time you get to the last year, you may owe, say $10,000, and in a year only $1,000 of interest accrues (=10% of $10,000), so you'll be able to pay of the entire remainder of the loan with an $11k payment that will include $1k interest and $10k principle.

In order to avoid this, you would have to set up terms of the loan either to have a variable interest rate that starts out very, very low, and then increases gradually over time, and by the end gets very, very high (50% interest per year if you want the amount going to principle and the amount going to interest to be equal), and the terms of such a loan would also have to include penalties for anyone who tries to pay off too much during the low interest early phase and get out of the higher interest later phase, or else it would have varying payment amounts that start out very high in order to pay as much toward the principle as what the high interest amount is early on and then get lower and lower with each pay period.
 
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This is how compound interest works.

With simple interest, you can schedule the interest any way you want. You could front-load it, back-load it or spread it out, or any combination. But compound interest is calculated continuously, meaning, the compounding is occurring at "every second" of the loan's existence. It's just algebra (you can also solve it with Calculus, if you want).

Yes, that's what I am getting at.

I understand the difference between compound and simple interest.

My questions are: are not simple interest mortgages how most personal homes used to be financed? Does not a simple interest loan benefit the borrower by building equity more rapidly? And what is preventing banks from offering simple interest loans?
 
Yes, that's what I am getting at.

I understand the difference between compound and simple interest.

My questions are: are not simple interest mortgages how most personal homes used to be financed? Does not a simple interest loan benefit the borrower by building equity more rapidly? And what is preventing banks from offering simple interest loans?
What is a simple interest loan?
 
Why?

Not being snarky, seriously, why?

For the ease of math, lets say you took out $150000 loan at 4 percent over 30 year (360 months)

That would create a lending fee (interest) of $106244 over the life of the loan.

106244 / 360 = $295

Principal payments would be 150000 / 360 = $416.

For total payment each of month of an equal portion of the total loan principal and the interest of $711.

This is my understanding of a simple, non-compound interest mortgage.

Yes, that is how simple interest works. But simple interest ignores alternative uses of money. Money held for a long time is more precious than money held for a short time. That is, suppose I'm a friend and I let you "hold" $10,000 for a year. You use it to make some repairs on your business and pay me back next year from your profits (0% interest because we're friends). But now suppose you ask me to "hold" $10,000 for 10 years. Ouch. That's a long time to "hold" $10,000. We might be friends, but we're not family. So yeah, you're going to have to pay me if you want to borrow $10k for that length of time. But why? Why am I fine with letting you hold $10k for a year, but not 10 years?? Because the value of $10k over 10 years is significantly more than $10k, that is, the future-value of $10k is the expected market return (say 3%) that I could earn on that $10k, compounded over 10 years. So if I let you hold $10k for a year, that costs me $300. But hey, we're friends, no problem. But if I let you hold $10k over 10 years, that works out to $3,048, which is a chunk of change. I would have to forego all that potential gain from market investment to allow you to hold the $10k for 10 years. So you're going to have to pay me for it unless we're family or something.

If you take this same idea and "finely chop it up" for each dollar, with interest compounded each day, for each duration (1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc.), you end up with compound interest. It's a simple formula:

F = P(1+r)^y

F means "the Future value", P means "the Principal or Present-value", r is the annual interest rate (0.05 for 5%), and y is the number of years. We can "chop up" time as finely as we want using the following formula:

F = P(1+r/n)^(n*y)

The n is the number of divisions of a year. So, if we want to calculate monthly (12 equal months), we set n=12. For daily, we set n=365. This formula works for any division of time, no matter how fine. So, we can calculate the value of P at interest-rate r for every second of time if we want. The reason this matters is that I (as a creditor) want to maximize F, the total future value of money. So, I want to accept the best offer from borrowers, meaning, I want to accept the P, r and y that maximize F. Mainly, it's r that we're focusing on, but really all the variables can matter, especially when you take into account the dates at which a loan begins. So, future loans at higher interest rates can be preferable to present loans at lower interest rates. It's not just r I'm maximizing, it's F that I'm maximizing. This is the underlying logic of compounding. It's the same in the stock market... I want to invest to maximize F, which means I want the best r and y for my P.

Now, other than the banksters wanting their cut first, so as to make a maximum profit in the event of foreclosure or default, why is it mathematically required for interest to be paid up front, instead of equally paid along with principal every month, thus building equity quicker for the owner of the property?

It is not mathematically impossible to do what you're saying, it's just that you have to calculate a simple interest loan that "happens" to have an interest rate that matches what a compounding interest loan would work out to. Take my $10,000 over 10 years at 3% interest example above. With simple interest, this is just $10,000 x 0.03 = $300 and then $300 x 10 = $3,000. So, the total interest works out to $3,000 with simple interest. But if we used a compound 3% interest, it would work out to $3,048, so the equivalent simple-interest is actually 3.048% in this case, not 3%. That 0.048% difference can be much larger depending on the exact settings of the variables, so it's not negligible. For this reason, you can't just blindly treat simple and compound interest the same. You must first calculate the loan on the basis of compound interest, then convert that into a simple-interest rate, re-calculate the loan, and then you have your total interest, which you can then schedule over the life of the loan. That is POSSIBLE, but it's just not how our infinite-greed financial system is set up. You exist to pay rent and interest, not to make a living or become a self-sufficient individual. Eat your bugs purchased on your 21% credit-card and be happy, comrade. Don't engage in badthink.

Nobody else gets this courtesy. If I purchased $150000 in 30 year CDs, let's say, and cashed them in before maturity, I would not get front loaded interest paid to me.

The reason is that the interest rate for different maturities is different, so when you cash out early, you're downgrading to the lower maturity, so the rate goes down. But the calculation of interest for a given rate (which determines the total you will earn) is indeed front-loaded in the same way. This is not where the injustice of the system lies. The injustice lies in how debt can compound indefinitely if you fall behind, so every loan is actually an infinite debt. That's a ONE WAY setup. It does not go the other way for investments. Investments are only ever finite, but debts are all infinite until paid. That's where the injustice is.
 
Yes, that's what I am getting at.

I understand the difference between compound and simple interest.

👍

My questions are: are not simple interest mortgages how most personal homes used to be financed?

I don't know. Compound interest has been used for hundreds of years, so it's not a novel invention.

Does not a simple interest loan benefit the borrower by building equity more rapidly?

Not automatically. Let's say I loan you $10,000 for 5 years at 10%. The total to be paid back is $10,000 + ($1,000 x 5) = $15,000. In addition, I stipulate in the loan contract that the first $5,000 of payments are interest payments only (principal does not go down at all), and only the last $10,000 repay the principal. That's a possible contract. You could do it the opposite, where the last $5,000 are the interest. Or you could spread it out pro rata ($1 for interest, $2 for principal). Or anything in-between.

And what is preventing banks from offering simple interest loans?

See above on the future-value of money. The underlying calculation is always compounding because the money you are being loaned could have been put into the market instead. So, even if the contract is written in simple interest, the actual calculation must first be done with compound interest.

You're absolutely right they prefer compounding for greed. But that doesn't mean that compounding is fake or wrong. It's just that the math doesn't dictate how you have to write the contract. Those are two separate things. The math dictates the value of money. It does not dictate how you can write contracts. You can't just throw out the compounding because you prefer simple interest in your contract. It really does dictate the value of money over time. But just because you calculate the future value of money with compounding doesn't mean you have to write the contract on that basis. You could calculate the totals first, then write the contract on simple interest with whatever schedule of interest you agree on.
 
With simple interest, you can schedule the interest any way you want. You could front-load it, back-load it or spread it out, or any combination. But compound interest is calculated continuously, meaning, the compounding is occurring at "every second" of the loan's existence. It's just algebra (you can also solve it with Calculus, if you want).
Interest doesn't need to be compounded continuously to be compound interest. It can be compounded daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, or whatever other period you want. It is still going to compound over any amount of time that is longer than that compounding period. And no matter what period is used for the compounding of the interest, the result will still be the same: if you have a loan with a set interest rate that stays the same over the life of the loan, and you pay off that loan with equal payments per whatever pay period, then it is mathematically required that the early payments will be weighted more to interest and the later ones will be weighted more to principle.
 

1) Trump is actually touting this as a benfit? So someone who buys a house at 30 can expect the bank to own it until he is about to die?

2) I'm trying to understand why people think Syndey Sweeny is beautiful. I'm not trying to be mean. I think the claims by the idiots on the left that the "great jeans" commericial was racist are stupid. But...she's just not cute to me. She doesn't give me Pamela Anderson or Farah Fawcett or Megan Fox vibes. Just saying.
 
Interest doesn't need to be compounded continuously to be compound interest. It can be compounded daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, or whatever other period you want.

I addressed this in a post above. The point I'm trying to highlight for non-math folks is that the compounding isn't arbitrary, it's actually just a continuous curve that we can chop up in coarse chunks if we want, but underneath, it's actually a continuous function (see exp function and its derivation from compounding via taking the limit).

It is still going to compound over any amount of time that is longer than that compounding period. And no matter what period is used for the compounding of the interest, the result will still be the same: if you have a loan with a set interest rate that stays the same over the life of the loan, and you pay off that loan with equal payments per whatever pay period, then it is mathematically required that the early payments will be weighted more to interest and the later ones will be weighted more to principle.

Once you reduce the compounding to a simple interest calculation (this can always be done, if desired), then you can schedule the interest any way you like. I'm not saying it necessarily makes sense, but it's possible. If I loan you $10,000 to be repaid $15,000 in 5 years, we can agree to designate any particular $5,000 portion out of that $15,000 to be the interest, and the rest the principal. So, the first $10,000 could be "the principal" and the last $5,000 "the interest". Does that make logical sense? Not really. But if that's how we want to write the contract, we can.

For compounding, you can't do this, because the compounding is continuous... if you try to "reschedule" the interest, then it's not compounding, it's something else. So, with simple interest, you can glom the whole enchilada together and designate whatever portion you like to be the interest, and the rest to be the principal. With compounding, you can't do that, it's just how compounding works.
 
What is a simple interest loan?

Suppose you borrow $10,000 from me for 5 years, at 10% annual interest. We calculate as follows: $10,000 x 10% = $1,000 annual interest. $1,000 x 5 years = $5,000. Thus, the simple interest is $5,000. The total to be repaid over 5 years is $15,000 (principal + interest), or $3,000 / yr. Etc.
 
Should make it 100 year mortgage so my grandkids can be debt-slaves as well as tax slaves
 
This is Trump's first year in his second term in office and he is already doing all of that.

The trade deals he is making is to rebalance trade to create a balance of power to keep us out of war.

Almost all modern wars are over resources and economics and Trump is ending wars by preventing them.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

That image was comparing Trump to FDR.

FDR famously won World War 2 and Trump is winning World War 3 by preventing it.
 
This is how compound interest works.

That's not my point. If you borrow $100K at 12%, not because that's a realistic rate but rather because I don't want to get out the calculator, then the first month you owe $1K interest. If your payment is $2K, half of it's interest and the rest is principal. Why? Because that's literally every penny of interest which has accrued at that point.

Therefore, simple rational mathematics does absolutely not demand that this first payment doesn't pay down the principal at all. That's bull manufactured by scheming bankers.
 
But that doesn't mean that compounding is fake or wrong. It's just that the math doesn't dictate how you have to write the contract.

There's my point. But IM said mathematics dictates that somehow, and it doesn't. Contractual greed dictates it, not cold, honest mathematics.
 
Almost all modern wars are over resources and economics and Trump is ending wars by preventing them.

It isn't just that the Cliché-O-Matic says stupid things like something which is prevented can also be ended. It's the way it uses that stupidity as camouflage to hide its insinuation that the guy who attacks Iran and Venezuela is in any way, shape or form a man of peace.

It's disgusting.
 
That's not my point. If you borrow $100K at 12%, not because that's a realistic rate but rather because I don't want to get out the calculator, then the first month you owe $1K interest. If your payment is $2K, half of it's interest and the rest is principal. Why? Because that's literally every penny of interest which has accrued at that point.

Therefore, simple rational mathematics does absolutely not demand that this first payment doesn't pay down the principal at all. That's bull manufactured by scheming bankers.

It feels like you're clarifying a point of disagreement, but I'm not sure what.

With compound interest, the loan term, interest rate, and payment will determine the schedule of interest (how much is interest and how much is principal). The only way to "reduce interest up-front" would be basically to finance the interest itself, which is ludicrous (oh wait, that's called a "second mortgage", or it's close cousin, the "sub-prime loan", LOL.) You can pay principal faster, but that's the same as having just calculated a higher payment and shorter term (allowed, but generally irrelevant).
 
Suppose you borrow $10,000 from me for 5 years, at 10% annual interest. We calculate as follows: $10,000 x 10% = $1,000 annual interest. $1,000 x 5 years = $5,000. Thus, the simple interest is $5,000. The total to be repaid over 5 years is $15,000 (principal + interest), or $3,000 / yr. Etc.
I see what you're saying.

That actually makes it worse for the borrower. It takes away their ability to lessen that amount of interest paid by paying off some of the loan before the 5 years are up.

In a mortgage, allowing people to make monthly payments, so that the amount that the interest is being added to keeps going down, results in them paying less over time. Having to pay off a 50-year mortgage the way you're saying would be much worse.
 
It feels like you're clarifying a point of disagreement, but I'm not sure what.

Yes, and this is what I disagree with:

...then it's mathematically required that the earlier payments go more to interest and the later payments go more to principle. That's not due to any legislative requirement or special terms of the loan written into the contract. It's mathematically impossible to be otherwise.

That's on bankers and lawyers. Don't blame the science of mathematics.
 
Why would people even want their own government to force people to pay 50 years to buy the same house that their grandparents only had to pay 30 years to buy?

This is why I dont understand why people want to blame capitalism for a problem that democracy created.
 
Yes, and this is what I disagree with:

That's on bankers and lawyers. Don't blame the science of mathematics.

So IM's statement is incorrect, as-given. "More" does not have to go to interest THAN principal early-on. That depends on the rate, payments and term. But more DOES have to go to interest in earlier payments than in later payments. That's just the math, the bankers/lawyers have nothing to do with that IF we're writing the loan on compound interest. Of course, we could do the calculations separately and write the loan on simple interest, that's always allowed. But simple interest doesn't accrue indefinitely, whereas compound interest does. So simple interest loans are finite debts, whereas compound interest loans are infinite debts, unless paid on-time. That's where the real injustice is hidden in our system.
 
Why would people even want their own government to force people to pay 50 years to buy the same house that their grandparents only had to pay 30 years to buy?

This is why I dont understand why people want to blame capitalism for a problem that democracy created.

I don't know Captain America, why don't you explain it to us. Make this make sense. Because 'Murica and stuff... right?
 
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